Navigating career change: growth, identity and listening to your gut with somatic psychologist, Katie Asmus from Boulder, CO
Changing careers isn’t just about updating your resume—it’s a big, emotional transition that can shake up your sense of identity, self-worth, and even how you move through the world. In this episode, career flipper host Jenny Dempsey sits down with Licensed Professional Counselor, Katie Asmus, founder and director of the Somatic Nature Therapy Institute headquartered in Boulder, CO, to dive into the rites of passage that come with career shifts, the power of listening to your inner voice, and why change can feel so complicated (but also so rewarding!).
We talk about the grieving process that comes with leaving a job, listening to your body, and why it’s so important to create space for reflection and self-discovery during big life transitions. If you’re in the middle of a career flip (or thinking about one), this episode is packed with wisdom and practical advice to help you move forward with clarity and confidence.
Takeaways
Tune in for a real, honest conversation about the messy, meaningful journey of career change—and how to navigate it with more ease and self-trust.
Connect with Katie
Jenny Dempsey (00:00.414)
And one of the things that I see that is the biggest challenge for people in listening to their inner voice is the amount of shoulds that they've taken on from their families, from society, from past experiences, even of maybe trauma or, you know, where something they had a really bad experience taking a risk. So I think that
Listening to our inner voice, it can be complicated.
Jenny Dempsey (00:34.69)
there and welcome to the Career Flipper podcast. I'm Jenny Dempsey, your host and fellow Career Flipper. This whole thing started because after getting laid off and questioning everything about my own career, I got really curious.
people actually do this? How do they make these big career changes? And more importantly, how do they keep going when it gets messy and confusing and you have zero dollars in your bank account? That curiosity led me here to having real honest conversations with people from all kinds of industries and backgrounds about how they navigated major career changes on their own path.
So if someone shared this episode with you, I gotta say, that's amazing. Because it means they really care about you and your success on your career path. So grab your earbuds, get comfy, and let's dive into some career flipping inspiration. And hey, don't forget to hit subscribe. There are new episodes every single Thursday and I don't want you to miss any.
Today's episode, is a little different. We're not sitting down with a career flipper, but instead talking to someone else who sits down with career flippers to help them navigate the changes. Meet Katie Asmus, a licensed professional counselor and founder of the Somatic Nature Therapy Institute in Boulder, Colorado. Changing careers isn't just about switching jobs. It's often this huge, emotional, life-shifting experience. At least it was for me.
and it still continues to be, maybe more of an existential crisis, I don't know yet, but anyways, if you've ever felt like that, trust me, you're not alone.
Jenny Dempsey (02:10.922)
diving into the messy, the magical, and the downright confusing world of career transitions. So Katie and I are chatting about what she calls the rites of passage that come with career shifts, the importance of listening to your inner voice, and why change can feel so overwhelming, yet so rewarding. And we also talk about the grief that can come with making a big change and how your body reacts to that change.
And honestly, this conversation hit home for me. I found myself leaning into what Katie was saying, especially, you know, I'm in the middle still of my own career flip and...
You know, things are a little more clear now, but I'm still so confused. Every day is something new and I can get really stuck in my own head. So I am always trying to figure out what is going on in my brain and getting the chance to pick Katie's brain during this conversation was such a game changer for me. I realized I'm not just flipping my career. You're not just flipping your career. This is a whole process, a rite of passage, a personal transformation.
So if you're also, like me, feeling lost, stuck, or honestly just unsure of what's next, just keep taking those steps and listen to this episode. It is packed with actionable, real advice, not super woo woo. It's real data-backed advice that is gonna help you navigate your own career transition.
clarity, a little more confidence, and maybe even a little smile on your face. So let's get to the episode now. Katie Asmus, thank you so much for being here with me today. Tell everybody about you. thank you so much. So fun to be here. So my name is Katie Asmus and I live currently in Boulder, Colorado for the last 27 years. And I am a psychotherapist, a life coach.
Jenny Dempsey (04:13.224)
a rites of passage guide. And I do a lot of training of therapists and healers in different nature based modalities, somatic, so body mind connection, experiences and ceremony and ritual. And one of the things that I'm excited to talk to you about here is with life change, the words that really rise up for me is rites of passage and
How do we look at roadmaps to really support us in those unknown times? yeah. I just got chills just thinking about that. I think that it resonates so much because while we can talk about the job, the actual tangible job changes that we're doing, we're moving from this role to this role, or we're starting this business and we're filing taxes this way, all of the very, the things that are important. There's so much of the internal work and as you mentioned, rights of,
passage. And I know for myself, I might define that a little differently, whether that is what, you know, might be showing up for me on my path, but also what I'm giving myself permission to do. So I think talking with you today about that, you know, it's just, it's just interesting. So how often do you work with people who flip their careers? Is that a common thing that shows up with your clients? my goodness. Yes. And I, I think especially now in the world where
There's so much more freedom that people are more thinking about entrepreneurship. And it's not like, you know, 50 years ago when or 30 years ago when our parents committed to a job and literally never left the job for the rest of their lives with moves, et cetera. So it's a pretty common topic, really. I think relationship work, those are two of the big the big topics that people come in with. Yeah.
Totally. And that's very reassuring to know that we're not alone in this. A lot of us are navigating this. And so if you're okay with it, Katie, I'm going to share a little bit about my story and then kind of things that I've learned along the way with talking to career flippers around the world and just things that might come up because there are certain things that even I am like self-assured, like, I got to ask Katie about this. my gosh. I just, guess like in a nutshell, my
Jenny Dempsey (06:35.64)
career started and when I was in college and I went into customer service, customer experience, and I didn't really question it. And I think that I didn't question this corporate world working in the nine to five simply because that's what I saw my family do. That's what I was told to do. You go to college, you get a job, you work that job, you stay in that job. You don't really need to like it. You just got to do it. And so kind of going from that trajectory.
I didn't question it until I got laid off and couldn't find a job and realizing how much of my identity was tied up in work and just really realizing how much I was pushing down a lot of these creative sides of myself. And I'm curious to hear, you know, when someone kind of goes through this transition who didn't expect it, like I didn't ever question it. And I know there are people that I've talked to who
They feel these things are like nudges or they're like, I just feel like I need to change. Like I didn't really, I don't know. At least I don't remember feeling any of those things. Do you have any thoughts around how does some people feel these things and some don't, but then when something happens and you hit this like rock bottom place that suddenly you're like, now I need to think differently because what was working isn't working anymore. Yeah. don't know. Does that make sense? Well, again, I just, mean,
I so think in this, model of rite of passage, which is really about change and acknowledging that when there's a big change in our life, sometimes that's choiceful, sometimes that's not choiceful. It's like we can't go back, right? When we become aware of something or something changes, we can't go back and our whole being is sort of oriented toward.
familiarity. So there's often a panic. And then what that does is it causes us to listen in a different way, begin to listen internally, or also maybe search and see what are other people doing here. And it literally changes our identity. So as you're talking about that, right, some people are maybe feeling the call already or feeling unsatisfied. And I think
Jenny Dempsey (08:46.378)
so much of how we relate to change and especially in this arena does relate to our families, know, the beliefs that we grew up in, the work ethic, you know, whatever the different ways we relate to life and to change and then to work as part of that. So I think some people already have more maybe internal permission to make change when there's an impulse or a call.
Whereas other people are gonna wait longer or it's gonna take a crisis or in quotes, you know, or something that we didn't choose to actually really call us to listen more deeply inward. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about this work identity and how we get so entangled with it being who we are and why does that happen?
I get, cause it is so hard to untangle and it's just a process that I feel like it is ongoing. Even when we do start our own things and do things that really light us up, somehow it's still kind of becomes entangled in who we are. And like, is that okay? Like, what does that look like as far as like a rite of passage when we're kind of moving forward through life, that this identity is kind of tied to, you know, elements of a job or the job itself.
Yeah, I feel like it's such a big question because there's so many different nuances, right? And many different nuances that this could touch on. one is I'm just thinking about maybe even if somebody doesn't love their job, but their self-esteem might be mixed up with how am I performing, you know, or and how am I doing compared to other people? So that could get touched on.
And then if we love our job, there's also our soul is mixed up in how we are interacting with it. And again, what is coming from it? And then there's the happiness factor, which, and I think now in the world too, there is, would say an unreasonable expectation on happiness, right? But there's, mean, it's also a motivation that we're often striving for and looking at
Jenny Dempsey (11:04.43)
you know, can my job or can my career be a part of that? So I think, as you know, you know, some people have more of a stance of I'm going to work to live, and I'm just going to show up every day and get the thing done so that I can go and live my life in other arenas. And then other people live to work, which I think, again, it could be
achievement, could be self-esteem, or it could be creativity and soul expression. So I think there's such a diverse range of the different ways that our egos and also our souls really get connected in with our work and our satisfaction in that area. It's interesting to hear it kind of like the two types of people, because I know that I've had those people in my life, people who just work to live and people who
live to work and I feel like I was always the work to live because that's just what I knew, but I always needed to make an impact for whatever reason. Like I was just helping customers with their, you know, computer related stuff and, somehow I needed to turn it into something to make an impact. And even to this day, like anything that I do that I start on the side or whatever, there's just little part of me that's always like, I can't just work to work. And I've tried that. I've tried to just work for the paycheck.
And it just didn't work for me. And so I'm like, why, why is that? Why do we somehow need to, is that tied to these old belief systems of work being ingrained to like achieve? Like you mentioned achievement or I don't know, I was a former people player, semi-retired, should say people pleaser. know, is there something there that still needs a little bit of work or is it okay to want to work in a job and make an impact even if it's not a huge one, but.
I guess I'm just kind of curious, how do you know sometimes when it's like, Ooh, I need to work on this versus, that's actually totally okay and healthy. that's such a great question. think that, right. Everyone is so different. And for some people, I think it can really be okay to just go to work, do the thing and
Jenny Dempsey (13:15.202)
they can be satisfied with it, right? And other people are like, no, I need to have meaning. And that's part of the drive and the motivation. And I think in general, we are meaning making people. And there's something super important that you're pointing to here partially, which is we need to have a motivation. anything in our life is going to be sustainable, we need enough of a motivation.
And so that motivation can be either one, you know, can be, okay, I'm making enough money to live the lifestyle that I want to live. Or it could be, I am doing the work that lights up my soul. And I think with anything, you know, being a psychotherapist, think it's, is it impacting your basic mood and quality of life? Right. So
There are a lot of things we do that might not be like the most enlightened we could live, but it's not impacting our life in a huge way. So I think it's for each individual person to really search their own heart and soul and say, this is good. Like this is working for me to not love my work. Cause I have all this other, you know, aspects of my life that would light me up. But if that is impacting our
again, our mood, you know, our relationships, our ability to get out of bed, then it is definitely a problem or an issue. Right, right. That's a good way to look at it. Like the other things outside of yourself, how is that impacting that? And I think that that can be a great indicator sometimes when we don't really know if it is good or bad, like is how is that working for the rest of our life? And I think something else pops in my mind, Katie, is just like,
this call to do something, whether it's different than what we did before or different on societal standards or whatever that looks like, leaving a stable job, I say stable in air quotes, but a stable job and starting our own business or instead of working for a company, starting our own. Going back to this feeling, this call, because I know a lot of folks come on the Career Flipper podcast and they talk about, just felt like I needed a change. I just felt like
Jenny Dempsey (15:33.162)
it wasn't scary. knew the cost of staying was more than going and doing something so brave and bold and scary and not having as much money. And I'm curious if you could talk about that moment when people are trying to make that decision. How does someone trust that settling maybe it's not the right choice right now? Or how do they know when it is the right time to go and kind of trust that inner wisdom? How do we trust that? Because sometimes like,
It gets so clouded. I see a lot of you like clouded with like, you know, society's saying, well, you got to have money to live or you got to pay your bills. You got to do this and that. But it's like, but I want to do this. How do we know that our inner wisdom is leading us in the right direction? Oh my goodness. So complex. Well, one, I want to say, as you described that process of, you know, the wanting something more, that is the process of growth and
evolution, like literal evolution, that call to something more call to something more throughout our entire lives. And again, I think, you know, there are so many different things that influence that our values and and also our capacity to listen to our inner voice. And so there's such a key piece here about values and motivation, right? Because for some people, the value of stability is so much
greater than the value of passion, you know, or something else. could say, you know, do that with a lot of different values. And one of the things that I see that is the biggest challenge for people in listening to their inner voice is the amount of shoulds that they've taken on from their families, from their, from society, from past experiences, even of maybe trauma or
you know, where something, they had a really bad experience taking a risk. So I think that listening to our inner voice, it can be complicated, right? I do parts work. So there's different parts work models in the world. IFS is a well-known one, but listening to like the inner child or the inner wise self or the inner critic. And so sometimes, especially if,
Jenny Dempsey (17:56.728)
we're not used to really sort of pausing and understanding the complexity. The inner critic voice could get mixed up with, you know, our inner wise self or et cetera, because there's often a lot of inner conflict happening within any decision. So how do we listen? I I think practicing, you know, and I think there's so many ways to practice listening. could be through journaling.
through art making, through meditating and really listening over time, what is consistent? What keeps bubbling to the top? What are the consistent desires or longings that keep coming through? I think doing something like taking time out of life to kind of change up the environment, even if it's camping or...
maybe going on a trip, something to sort of get quiet, listen inward without all of the noise that is our world at this point and to really, again, see, know, who am I when I'm really just with me? What are the voices that keep coming through? So those are a few different ways. Also having people who know us well and love us give us reflection.
and say, you've been saying that to me for five years. know, can be how well they go, I have, you really haven't been happy at that job for three years. Maybe, yeah, I think that that is true. That is consistent and really getting that feedback. Love that. I love that. Getting the feedback from those that matter and that you trust and giving yourself the permission to be quiet.
with yourself. I think that's also huge. And maybe if there's anyone else listening, who's also either semi-retired or full on people, please, there's like, that can be challenging. It can feel wrong, even though it's not like there's like, what is it? Intrusive thoughts that come in, like, you know, if you're starting to, think about taking care of yourself, suddenly it's like, no, no, no, you need to be doing this, this, and this to make sure that so-and-so or work or whatever it is, is taken care of. So I think sometimes it can get a little,
Jenny Dempsey (20:15.01)
Well, I know for myself in the past, it would get a little cloudy where I was like, I want to do this to take care of myself. But it felt so wrong, even though it actually wasn't. And once I did give myself that permission to just like listen and be okay with like things not necessarily being okay, it kind of just unlocked a lot for me. Yes. And I feel like the pace of our world today and
all the technology and different communications is making it even harder because I think for most people, at least that I know, know, that in order to listen, really, we need more than one hour. You know, we need more than an hour here or there. We do sometimes, and this is part of write a passage, it's like we need to remove ourselves from the day to day.
you know, and go, okay, how do I feel now when I'm not responding to all of the emails, when I'm not responding to all of the needs of my children or family or loved ones, et cetera, because it's so when that's how we're orienting and with such a fast pace, there isn't the space to really listen deeply inward often. Yeah, that's so true. It's so true. It's kind of like, you know, when some employers will give you like,
a week of PTO and suddenly that's supposed to be everything for the year. You're supposed to be able to reach them. I think that's just such a good point of the expectations from the outside and what we actually need for ourselves and being okay that sometimes it does take a little bit longer because I think that that's also, I don't know, important. It doesn't happen overnight. And if it does for someone, that's amazing. I don't know.
I feel like for me, was just like this ongoing thing. Even years before I got laid off, was starting to just, I don't know, think about the people pleasing aspect of myself and how that showed up for me and like working through that a bit. it's, mean, it's been years and it's still something that is a ongoing progress, not perfection type of thing. And so I'm glad that you brought that up because it's just, I think it's important for people who are thinking about making a change.
Jenny Dempsey (22:33.23)
and being able to know like, is it the right time to leave? Should I leave this job? Should I stay? Like, and just kind of getting into that quiet space on a regular basis and giving yourself kind of this permission to really think about what you actually might want and align it with your values. And that's, that's a big deal. Cause those are kind of like, they help anchor you into what actually matters. Yes.
Yes. And as you're sharing this, one of the things I'm thinking about is obviously everyone's in a different experience or different level of is what I'm doing working for me, you know, is it toxic? Is it just not satisfying? And I think sometimes again, with change, if we are not listening and something really isn't working, something will happen like with our health or
you know, where it's almost like, okay, now you don't have a choice. It's really the stress is being internalized. And so sometimes that is can be the catalyst for a big change for people. Yes, that's so true tuning into that. just like acknowledging that this is happening. And if you're not going to do something about it, then it's going to do something about it for you. think.
that's important for sure. And the part is so hard too, because it's easy enough to go to the doctor, say you have something going on and get something for it and kind of just go on your merry way and not pay attention to it. So how do you kind of like factor that in, Katie, to like, if someone's navigating a career change, things are going to be stressful, whether even if it's a good change, how do you kind of tune into what your
body might be sane. And, kind of just acknowledge it in a way that also keeps up with, you know, so much else going on. Does that kind of make sense? Like, how do you, how do do it all? That's a great question. So listen, you were asking about listening to your body within the context of the change. Yeah. I mean, I think, really, when you are making a change, suddenly,
Jenny Dempsey (24:53.39)
your body and your particular voice is the navigation. Because when you step out, you're stepping out of the known into the unknown, which is why it's so terrifying. And in the right of passage model, the first step is, is letting go. The second step is the liminal or the no name or the messy middle that goes on way longer than we ever want it to.
And then is the incorporation, bringing the new change into the body. And so when we go into the unknown, you know, and that could be going into the unknown of what am I going to do next? It could be, make, I made a choice to make a shift, but what is it? Or I made a choice and I know what it is, but I have no idea how to do this because I've never done it before. Really, you know, and in that, in that liminal state,
It is really about continuing to listen inward. And personally, I mean, I think everyone's different, but I am a somatic therapist. when often when people are trying to make decisions, I will say, well, let's see what happens in your body when you think of these different things. When you think about maybe staying at your job, what happens in your body when you think about leaving. And obviously that in even and in of self can be complex.
because there might be different experiences, but we always say the body doesn't lie. You know, there are debate teams, our mind can debate any angle of any choice at any moment, but our bodies know. And so if we can get skilled at really noticing our sensations, kind of getting quiet, taking some breaths and asking our bodies, there's...
a lot of information that we can get in here. Yeah, absolutely. That's so, it's so true. And it, I think some people I know I've chatted with, they're like, well, I'm not into that woo woo stuff. Like this isn't even woo woo. Like this is just like, yeah. Exactly. And it can show up in such weird ways where we might
Jenny Dempsey (27:13.366)
I've just been living with something a certain way for a very long time. And then it's like, wait, actually, maybe that's not like the right or the healthiest thing for me, or maybe it's trying to tell me something. And it's a good reminder for all of us that as we are navigating a change, I kind of picture it like, I heard someone say it's recently in it, it just hooked with me. It's like, when some like technology upgrades.
You know, like when your phone is upgrading to a new version or whatever, things get a little wonky. Some things don't work right. They don't work as you remember them. You know, the buttons might show up weird or colors might look weird, but it's like, once it's done, it's like this updated version. And it's just, okay, like things are going to work different, but they're even better. And I feel like kind of when we're going through change, and I'm sure you could speak to this so much more than I can, but.
we go through this kind of our own upgrade process and things aren't going to work as we know them and things are going to be a little wonky and weird. And, you know, we're not going to maybe have answers to things right away or we'll feel certain ways about things that we didn't really realize, or maybe values do shift or maybe, you know, whatever it is. And so, you know, just kind of going through all of that upgrade. Yes. Well, as you described that, I think about one of the metaphors for
the liminal, middle, kind of the messy middle of change is a wandering in the desert. So we're sort of wandering out there, like, where are we? Who am I? What's next? And if you think about before a big change, we've been living our life with very particular expectations, internalized expectations, ways of doing things.
values and we're not questioning them that much. We're more in functioning mode. And so when there's a big change, it suddenly shines the spotlight on all of those things, on what we value, how we're doing things. It gives us the space to question, know, question all of those things that in some ways we just usually don't have time for and
Jenny Dempsey (29:27.68)
Again, the anti is upped because if we're in the unknown, there's often fear that arises. Am I going to be okay? Who am I? What am I going to do? You know, in this case, how am I going to make money and support myself? Am I going to need to compromise myself? Is it possible to do something I love, et cetera? So all of those different pieces are really coming up in that in that place as we are in the middle, right?
And one of the things is when we go through a rite of passage, what happens is we are shown or we find capacities in ourselves that we never would have found without the challenge. So we find, know, we start to access qualities, capacities, because of that challenge to meet the challenge. And so often, especially
actually, if we're doing this consciously, you know, with enough support, which could be look a lot of different ways. If we're doing this consciously, typically we come out on the other side, more intentional, more aligned with who we are. Yes, that right there makes so much sense. These things that we didn't even know that we had in us. And once we're faced with this challenge, we they just
kind of show up like they've been there this whole time. And it's amazing to me how that happens. It's also just like, I feel like through that process that I and I'm still going through it. So I'll just say that but like through that I have learned that I can trust myself a lot more. I can trust that inner voice. I can you know, push away the one the one inner voice is just like this actually doesn't fit into my life anymore. Because I trust more.
I've seen what I can do when I am in this rock bottom place and really just, yeah, lean into that. can you talk a little bit more about the rite of passage for a career flipper specifically? what are some things that, you know, if you were working with a client who is going through a career flip, what kind of things would show up in a rite of passage for them? What does that mean for a career flipper? Yes. Well, again, I would say,
Jenny Dempsey (31:50.574)
They're really looking at what are you letting go of? What are you ready to let go of? What are you letting go of that you might not be ready to let go of to actually take this step? And then when you're in the middle, really looking at how am I gonna get the information that I need? And typically it really is a combination of listening in word, listening to what lights you up.
where are you drawn? Where's your curiosity going versus what's repelling you? And maybe like you're doing here, talking to other people who've gone through this, you know, and hearing their stories and seeing what resonates with you, whether that's the process they went through or how did they know, or, you know, maybe if there is something you're leaning toward stepping into, going to talk to somebody who's working in that
industry arena about what are the challenges, are the things that light them up? And then running that through your own filtration system, you know, how does that land for me? So I think there really is this giving yourself permission and space to not know immediately because it's a big decision to change your whole life. And a lot's at stake or can feel like a lot's at stake. And so
really taking that space. And I think, you know, for some people, maybe depending on their capacity and their resources, there is a like, okay, I'm going to take time off. I'm going to take time off, listen in, we're do a little, you know, looking, searching what's out there. And for other people, that's just not possible financially. So then it's how do I do this process while I'm still working this job or
How do I make an income to support me while I do this process? So I think in that way, it's really different for everyone how that looks, but I think it really is learning to find that balance of listening inward and looking for what else is out there that we might not even know exists. Yeah, that really resonates so much because it is such an up and down process and it's very
Jenny Dempsey (34:11.284)
much about, where, what do we actually need in our lives? Some people can take that time. Some people can't. And that doesn't mean it's not available to them. It is. It's just a different, different toolkit that you have to kind of tap into it sounds like. And it makes it very real how you just described it because change is a natural normal process that will show up whether we want it, whether we choose it or whether it's chosen for us.
And so having this kind of in the back of our minds of like, well, if we choose to change our career, cool. If something else comes in our path, we also have the ability to navigate that as well. yes. Yeah. Yes. So true. So true. Life is change. Life is change. Yeah. And there's a grieving process with every change, even good change. And I think even with like losing
a job and changing a job, even if it's a job that we love changing to something else that fits better into our life, like the grieving process and giving ourselves, going back to permission, to grieve that. think that's complicated because not a lot of people talk about that grieving process with changing a career. Is it anything that you can share any bits of wisdom around? How do you navigate that?
Yes. So, and by the way, there's a really great book that I think your listeners would love if they're want to read a book, which is called Transitions by William Bridges. And he was a psychologist and looked at all processes of change through the rite of passage model. And this is one of the things he talks about, which really struck me when I read it, you know, a long time ago and has
stayed with me that exactly what you said with any change, whether it is positive or challenging, absolutely, we are letting go of something. And he talks about the real importance of making space to acknowledge and honor what that is, because it might be, I loved my coworkers, you I didn't like my job, but now I'm solo and I really miss that interaction, etc. Or
Jenny Dempsey (36:29.72)
you know, financially or whatever it was, or I was confident in this and now I'm, I don't really know what I'm doing. So in order to keep moving forward, it, it can be so helpful to acknowledge the losses, acknowledge what's ending and also celebrate maybe because in all changes, there's usually things that we are maybe happy or excited about or relieved about.
you know, things that we're sad about, maybe even things that we're angry about or resentful for. And so when people go through changes, whether that's career or relationship or other, that's often I'll help them create ceremony around just putting to words, acknowledging sometimes burying something or burning things that is all really acknowledging the multiplicity of the different feelings that
we have around the change and essentially that is grief. Grief is all the things, right? Grief is the denial, the bargaining, the sadness, the anger, the acceptance. And so to make space for all of that, because I think often there's so many feelings present at once that we just don't know what to do with it. Or, you know, people say, aren't you happy? You are finished with that or are you, you know, and it's so much more than that. And so if we can
really give ourselves the acknowledgement and honor and time and space. It can open up ourselves and open up space for really more to be more present to hold the questions about what is next or how do I want to engage going forward. Right. all goes back to that listening to yourself, getting quiet, listening to yourself and tuning back in.
turning that radio station back to you for a little bit. Katie, kind of on the lines of all of this that we've talked about today, because there's been so many things and I feel like each different kind of topic that we chat about, like this could be a separate episode. I have kind of any final pieces of advice for someone who might be listening right now, who might be sitting at their desk and feeling just burnt out, wants to make a change, but isn't sure.
Jenny Dempsey (38:52.984)
what to do or someone who's in the middle of it and trying to make that change and keep going. Do you have any advice that could help them on their path? Yeah, I think kind of where we started, which is maybe to commit to some sort of practice or experience that really allows that to start to make the space in their lives to listen. So whether that is the
a journaling practice every day, an art practice, maybe a walking, just going on a walk every day, holding questions so that, you know, it's not something that's necessarily gonna come quickly, but it's important to really make the space, take the space to value ourselves enough, again, to step out of the day-to-day, shoulds, the answering the emails. And even if it takes a year,
going to be in a way different place in a year than we were. So I would say, like, listen, you know, really listen to that longing and see what can I give myself to really honor the question so that I can hold it even more consciously. That's great advice. That's great advice. And even I just feel like I could do that more as well and just really give myself that permission to to listen more.
Cause even when you do make the changes and you just sometimes it gets so loud with how many things are going on and really making it a regular rhythm in life, whether it's a short walk or a yoga class or I don't know, just sitting in staring at a blank wall for five minutes, like whatever that could look like or whatever anyone can fit in. I think that's a really important reminder and you made it very accessible to everyone. We could all do it in our own ways and really kind of like,
customize it to fit into where we're at in our lives. and Katie, yes. sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. Well, the other thing I was going to say is like this podcast isn't an incredible resource for people. The other thing that I would say is find people you admire or that are doing the things you're considering doing or have made a change and talk to them about the process because people have gone before us, even if we're going to do it in our own way. that
Jenny Dempsey (41:15.65)
balance of lists, really taking time to listen inward and to go out and see, actually do the work to see what is possible. Yes. So true. So true. Don't be afraid to ask the questions and get curious. That is really the only reason this podcast came to be. Like I was just like, I need to create a community and I don't see it out there. And I want to feel validated that I'm not doing something totally wacky.
And just talking to people really became such a source of comfort, validation, and every single person I've interviewed has become like a mentor to me. I have learned something from every single individual who has taken the time to be on my little show. And I'm just so, so grateful for that and feedback from others and how it's impacting them. was like, wow, that's even bigger than I ever imagined. It's helping others. The ripple effect is real.
Yes. my goodness. I love that. And this is such a great example of you just listening to what's coming through you. There's a meaning and you didn't know where it was going to go or if anybody would listen or how big it would get. But the fact that there was something in your heart that you followed, this is, that's also the meaning and the giving back. And then it can take on a life of its own. Yes.
Thank you. Yeah, it's so true. I just really let go of the outcome and was like, I'm just curious. I'm going to talk to people and just kind of, had zero expectations for anything. thought maybe one person listens. That's cool. I really didn't put it out there to be like this marketing salesy. don't know. I never have any intention of that and I'm not good at that stuff anyway. So I'm just like, this is just became so personal to me and it became a vehicle to help me navigate my own career change while now helping others. So it's a
It's a bus. We're all up the career flipper bus. Let's go. This is part of how you navigated your liminal. And in the meantime, it became a gift and a giveaway for other people to also have support in their transition. So cool. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being a part of it. And speaking of reaching out to people and you you offer such a wealth of advice and support to help people navigate
Jenny Dempsey (43:38.56)
a career change, any change or just life in general. Katie, how can people connect with you? How can they find you? Tell us, tell us where we can find all the things. Okay, great. So, Somatic Nature Therapy Institute is my business and, somaticnaturetherapy.com. We are also on Instagram, Somatic Nature Therapy and Facebook. And there are so many ways that we support people who
are making life changes. One is therapy, course, we do more in Boulder. So we have to work with people in Colorado, but we also do intensives for people who want to kind of fly out and do several days back to back. And also with life coaching. And then I do a lot of training of therapists that may or may not resonate with your audience. But some of the big things that we do do one is we lead wilderness quests. And those are this
upcoming year, four days, which is going into the woods with a group for women. And it includes a 24 hour solo on the land overnight. And it's a ceremonial process and we help people to consider what is their intention and question and how are they going to work with it when they're out on the land. So that's a big one. And then I also have a program called courting your medicine.
which is helping people find their inherent gifts that they want to be living in the world. And we have one that's a three month kind of arc and one that's a six day. And we didn't talk about this, but one of the core aspects of it is that, you know, it's hard to see ourselves. It's hard to know our own gifts. It's because it's so us that we don't realize that it's anything special, but we can see everybody else's.
So it's really helpful to have community to reflect that. And the idea that when we trust and know what is my gift in the world, that we can be living that in our work, but we can also not be living, we are living that everywhere we go. And so as an opportunity to help people really know and value themselves and their gifts and how they're already giving them. And then for some people, and how do I want to be giving them in the world? So very in alignment with this topic here.
Jenny Dempsey (46:01.77)
yeah, very in alignment. You've created such a unique set of opportunities and resources to help so many people, Katie. That's incredible. And even the training, you never know who's going to be listening and thinking about becoming a therapist or psychologist. You never know. And so I just think everything is so incredibly helpful and I appreciate you sharing that. And I am so honored to have you here today. Thank you so much, Katie.
Yeah, thank you. So honored to be here as well. It's so good to meet you.
Jenny Dempsey (46:36.952)
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the Career Flipper podcast. Be sure to connect with Katie using the links in the show notes. If you enjoyed today's Career Flip story, share it with a friend who could use a little motivation with their own career change. And don't forget to subscribe to stay up to date on future episodes. We've got new ones coming at you every single Thursday.
If you have a career flip story of your own, I would love to hear it. Visit thecareerflipper.com to learn more about how to submit your story for a future episode. And if you're looking for someone to speak at your next event about career changes and making that leap, think of me. I love sharing these stories and sharing what I've learned and giving others the courage to take their own first steps. Just drop me an email over to hello at thecareerflipper.com.
And remember my friend, every step counts. Keep going. Who knows where that next move might take ya? What's the best that could happen?