Musicologist to strategic communications advisor, meet Lisa Chensvold of Washington, DC.
What happens when you walk away from academia and turn your deep love of language, story, and the arts into a strategic superpower?
In this episode of The Career Flipper Podcast, I sit down with Lisa Chensvold, a classically-trained soprano and former musicologist based in Washington, DC, who made a bold leap from the world of academia to the world of strategic communications.
Now the Principal of Chensvold Communications, Lisa helps mission-driven leaders and organizations tackle complex communication challenges—from defining a CEO’s voice to aligning internal teams and rethinking how strategy shows up in language. Her work is rooted in clarity, intentionality, and the belief that thoughtful communication is leadership.
We talk about:
If you’re someone who’s ever felt the nudge to pivot but wondered how your experience translates, this one’s for you.
Connect with Lisa
lisa - 7:10:25, 2.59 PM
[00:00:00] If you can imagine yourself doing anything else professionally and being happy and fulfilled. I would do that. Hello. Hello. Welcome back to the Career Flipper podcast. I'm your career flipping and furniture flipping host Jenny Dempsey. Today you're going to meet Lisa Chen fold based in Washington DC.
Her story is really about walking away from the path that you thought you were supposed to be on. She started out studying musicology. Yep. She is a classically trained soprano. No, she didn't sing on this episode. Maybe next time around, but she's. Spent years immersed in the world of academia, but after earning two humanities degrees and getting most of the way through a PhD, she just realized something wasn't clicking and she, she didn't wanna stay on this path anymore.
Today [00:01:00] she is the. Principle of Tenfold Communications where she partners with mission driven leaders and organizations to solve complex communications challenges. So it might mean things like helping a new CEO to find their voice, or aligning a team around a shared message, clarifying a brand or, I don't know, rethinking how an entire company communicates from the inside out.
She really believes that clear, thoughtful communication isn't just nice to have. It's like a leadership skill. It is a leadership skill, and it's how like strategy actually shows up in the real world. And what I love most about her story is that she owns her background, her training in humanities gave her like this ability to think critically, uh, and really connect dots that most people don't even see, especially.
Around things like transferable skills. And in our chat we talk about what it felt like to walk away from academia, how she built a business from the ground up and literally [00:02:00] just started and, and what it means to really flip your perspective, not just your career. And of course, uh, we get into the fear, the leap.
The the can. I really do this questions because they're always part of the journey, right? So if you've ever felt like you wanted to pivot, but you weren't sure how your past experience fits into a new path, Lisa's story might give you a lot to think about. Let's get into it now.
Okay. Lisa, when was it last year that we chatted? Because. I mean, it was definitely toward the end of the year, but you were right. Kind of this decision making point, and here we are now in 2025. You've, you've made the leap and we'll get into all of that, but like, this is so fun to reconnect. Welcome to the career flipper, Lisa.
Oh, thank you, Ginny. I'm so happy to be here. Yeah, I think it was maybe late September, early [00:03:00] October. Yeah, when we, when we connected, uh, via LinkedIn. Yeah. Um, and I was talking, I was writing about. My big career flip, but I was also planning my current career flip, which was to strike out on my own and start my own consulting business.
Ooh. Yeah. And here you are. And now I'm, I'm just excited to go back further, further in time to where you began and kind of all the breadcrumbs that led you on the path. So, Lisa, tell everybody who you are and where you are and what you are doing right now. And then we'll dive into all the fun with the career flip.
I. Okay. Yeah. My name is Lisa Chen Vol, and I'm based in Washington d dc and I am a, um, I founded my own communications consulting firm, Chens Vol Communications, and, um, I specialize for now. Um, in working with social impact organizations, because I'm building this practice on two decades of doing, [00:04:00] um, PR marketing and comms for associations, nonprofits, and higher ed.
So I'm really looking, um, to partner with organizations that are trying to solve operational problems in comms 'cause. You know, nonprofit teams are small and they need help figuring out how to be efficient. Um, storytelling that cuts through all the noise. Um, brand positioning, executive thought leadership.
Yeah. So that's, that's what I'm doing now. Woo. But how did this begin? Because you didn't start in communications and pr, you started somewhere very different. So let's get into it. Where, where did everything kick off for you in your career path, Lisa? I have an undergraduate degree in music and I, um, I have a long history of I.
Head and heart tension. What my heart wants to do and what my head thinks I should do. This is a lifelong, I mean, [00:05:00] going back to being a kid, I have struggled with this tension and having gotten a music degree, I was trying to decide if I wanted to get a graduate degree in performance as a singer 'cause I'm a soprano, or if I wanted to.
Go the academic nerdy route and become a musicologist, which is a music scholar essentially. And there is one career path for that, which is to get a PhD and become a professor. I. That's the only career option really for a musicologist. Mm-hmm. Um, and I chose that at the end, end of the day after much agonizing, uh, so yeah, I went to, um, graduate school, got a master's degree in musicology, and um, was working on my PhD and did most of my PhD except for finishing a dissertation.
And spun my wheels for a long time and walked away from that PhD without knowing exactly what was gonna be next, and then that's where the flip [00:06:00] started. But it was a long process. I bet. I bet. And going back to what you said, the head and the heart. So when you first made that decision, either to, you know, lean into your beautiful soprano voice or to go the musicology route, was that a head or heart decision?
Hmm, that's a good question. I think it was ironically at the time, 'cause I was. You know, I, I, I demonstrated some talent in, in musicology. Yeah. And it felt like the safer option, right. Trying to find, trying to have a career as an opera singer or a classical singer Yeah. Is really hard. It's very entrepreneurial, ironic for how we, where I am today and being in academia.
You know, with a professor position felt safer. And it also felt like it fed my passion, my nerdiness, my passion for learning and [00:07:00] mm-hmm. Um, and reading deeply. But that I could also sing. But you can't really be a singer and be a, you know. Side musicologist. It doesn't really work, but the, the reverse does work.
So that's, I felt like I didn't have to give that up. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. And then when you made the decision to not, you know, proceed with the rest of the PhD, was that a head or a heart decision? That was a hard decision. Mm-hmm. That was a hard decision. And, um, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't easy and a lot of.
A lot of stuff was upended in my life that made it sort of easier to upend this part too. So I had lost my mom to cancer when I was just in my twenties. Um, I had gotten married, but then we were splitting up. So, you know, lost, my mom was moving away from where I was, you know, with my husband, who was also an academic and I was the.[00:08:00]
Quote, faculty, spouse in that scenario, even though I was also working on a PhD and that was an uncomfortable kind of Yeah. Block to be put in or space to operate in. Yeah. And um, when we, we split up and I moved back to North Carolina at the time. Um, I, I was still intending to finish my PhD for maybe six months or so after I had moved.
And then. I just was really questioning it. It wasn't, it wasn't sparking for me. I like to mentor and coach people, but classroom teaching is not exactly my environment that I thrive in. And to be honest with you, I don't remember who said it to me, but somebody said to me, if you can imagine yourself doing anything else professionally and being happy and fulfilled, I would do that.
Because the academic route is hard. The jobs are few and far between. You might have to live somewhere you [00:09:00] really don't wanna live. You know, it's, it's, the money's not good. Like, it's a tough, it's a tough road. And if it, you know, you stick with it. If it's the only thing you can imagine you'd ever, ever want to do, and that wasn't me.
So you had a two significant losses. Mm-hmm. Your mom, you were still so young in your twenties and you, you lose. Your, your marriage, you're, you're no longer gonna continue with that relationship. And so suddenly you have this, this moment where you're like, I have to listen to my heart, because you just like, it's like you lost your heart in these two instances, and, but listening to it was like tuning in with you because you still have you.
And so hearing you say that, it's just like. It's so pivotal how much grief can teach us about what we, and, and I hate to say it this way 'cause I too have lost my mom and my dad, but like grief can teach us so much about what we do want in life or losing [00:10:00] can and the grief from losing is what I mean. But, so what was that like for you, Lisa, in that moment when you made that decision?
Like, what did you do next? Like how did you. Pay your bills? Like how did you continue to think like, well, this is what I'm gonna do now. Like, what was going on? Like, you, you Yeah. What, how did you do that? Yeah. Um, it was, I'm trying to think. When I, when I first made the decision, I was, um, I was working as, and this is actually what laid the path, uh, for me where I am now, but I was working as a temp mm-hmm.
With, um. With, um, in the infectious disease, global health division at UNC, where I had been a graduate student, um, in Chapel Hill, and that was just to pay the bills. And I, you know, if I told you the, the, my income that year that I got divorced mm-hmm. [00:11:00] It's pathetic. And, you know, how did, how did, how did you survive on that?
Well, I made some bad decisions about how to flow, how to like survive, right. So, um. So I was like, I have to just have something, you know, like have a job and have this gives me some, you know, benefits. And so I, I was able to turn that temp job into a, a full-time, um, university employee. So I had the benefits and stuff, but that wasn't.
That wasn't my path, that was just to, mm-hmm. Give me some space to, to think about what I wanted. I was buying, you know, I bought the book, do What You Are, that's like, based on your Myers-Briggs and what you should be doing and, you know, all this exploration about what was gonna be next for me, while I'm also still like grieving a divorce.
You know, all that stuff is swirling around, you know, I don't have any money. Um, you know, it was, it was not a pretty time and I'm. You know, I spun my wheels in grad school for a while, so I was, yeah. Felt kind of too old to be in this sort [00:12:00] of position where other people were, who had a straight line path, were already, you know, a number of years into their career.
So it was, yeah, um, it was difficult. And then telling people was hard, telling my dad, telling, you know, close family, friends who'd known that decision and thinking that. Um, I was making a mistake or like you were so close. Why didn't you just finish? Like close was not really that close. I still had to pretty much write the whole, you know, multi hundred page, uh, dissertation.
Yeah. So, so yeah, I was worried about being what people would think about me. So what did they think when you did get the courage to, to share what you were doing? What were their responses? Did it mirror what you had in your mind? Did it like validate fears or were they actually more supportive than you expected?
I would say initially the, like my dad and a, a couple of family friends, [00:13:00] it, it validated my fears. Mm. So, um. There was disappointment there. Other friends were maybe worried for me, but supportive, like, I don't know how this is gonna go for you, but yeah, this seems like the right decision. And even having just made the decision, the weight that it lifted.
The other person I had to tell was my dissertation advisor, who I've been working closely with, and you know, professors have some investment in their. PhD students and their success is a reflection of them. So if your student veils, you know, I was just worried about that. It was wasn't my problem. Yeah, right.
That's, you know, not my problem, but still it was in the mix. But, um, you know, once I kind of started getting some traction with where I ultimately wanted to go, you know, my, my dad has been very supportive and is my biggest fan and, and all of that, but yeah. But at the time it was not, it was not [00:14:00] easy. I had.
Um, you know, a couple years into this process, I had a boyfriend at the time who, um, you know, both said, your parents shouldn't have let you study music. Ooh. Okay. Why, and you know, you think about now, right, that the higher ed a college degree has absolutely become utilitarian. Like it should be a degree that will get you a career.
Mm-hmm. Um, so that's much worse now. But it was, it was present then too. Like why did you get this quote useless degree. Um, and then also, you know, he was trying to sort of pigeonhole me. 'cause I was, you know, an an assistant, an administrative assistant at the time to say like, why don't you rise in the administrative assistant profession?
Which, no shame in that. That's a freaking hard job, especially at a [00:15:00] high level for a high level executive. Not my natural career set, not where I wanted to go, but you know, he was trying to propose this path for me that would let me, you know, rise the ranks of administrative assistant. So yeah, there was some, there was some weird stuff at the time.
Yeah. And it, I'm just curious, I'm guessing that relationship didn't last that long. No, it did not. Yeah.
So, so you, you've made the pivot. You're sharing with people, their responses are just kind of like questioning, like, what, what are you doing? Like whether what you were, what you did before to lead you to this decision by majoring in a particular thing, but also like. What are you doing with your career and why would you leave something you put so much time and effort and money into, but you made the decision 'cause your heart was leading you in that direction.
You had this kind of [00:16:00] quote unquote, stable job that was helping you pay the bills. So what did you do at this point? Like how did you kind of tap into, you know, while the administrative assistant wasn't your really flow of work that you wanted to do, what. Led you into finding what was, so I thought about, I really, so I worked on a couple of different fronts.
So one was, what am I good at? What is the transferable skill that I have gained over this time that I could pivot into a career? Yeah. Um, and then on the other side. Looking much more broadly. I thought about getting, um, a degree in social work, like getting another degree and going a very different direction, a more professional, um, school degree.
Um, and that gets to, I think, which is what we met over on LinkedIn, which is when I posted about this weird [00:17:00] moment when I was in graduate school of going to. A local Latin American, Latino cultural festival where I was supposed to be writing about the music performances. I was supposed to find a performer and interview them and talk about it.
This was for a, um, an ethnomusicology class, so non-Western music folk musics and all. I just was completely drawn to the, um, community health benefits booths that were at this. Cultural and arts festival, um, for vaccinations and, you know, um, diabetes screening and HIV testing and all of these things. And at the time I.
You know, whatever. I was, I guess naive, I suppose. I didn't understand what that role was at that festival, and so I'm proposing a paper that I write about this and my professor's like, you're in a music class. What are you doing? [00:18:00] An interesting. Moment where I just was clearly drawn to something very different from what I was supposed to be doing.
Yeah. So, you know, then here I am. So, um, so then here I am working at this infectious disease division as an administrative assistant. Yeah. So I'm working in that space with those folks. But I'm applying for, um, editor jobs, technical writer jobs. 'cause I can write like heck and I can edit and I have, um, I can translate complex information.
'cause I had to talk about, you know, how symphonies work for an audience, for students who don't know anything about classical music. So those are kind of my anchor skills. You know, I was cleaning up just yesterday, was cleaning up my Google Drive and I found all these old cover letters that I had written at that time when I was applying for jobs.
Yeah. And that was a trip. Wow. Um, yeah, I could see I [00:19:00] was trying so hard to make myself be marketable and to make it make sense and I can see why it didn't really make sense for a lot of people. Yeah. Um. And playing, experimenting with my, you know, put your A, b, d, all but dissertation degree on your resume.
Put your master's degree on there. Don't put them on there. Like, just how, how are people pigeonholing me and how am I marketing myself in ways that, um, that aren't getting me anywhere? So, so I kind of abandoned the social work path and I was really leaning into. I like to write. I'm good at writing, I'm good at editing.
I'm good at expressing myself. I'm good at public speaking, and then I'm surrounded by all these, um, researchers who are doing really important, you know, global, HIV, malaria, other kinds of research. I. And putting together their presentations for scientific, um, [00:20:00] conferences and helping them, you know, edit their papers for a submission and then clearly demonstrating that I have skills beyond what I'm doing.
They knew the transition that I was in. Yeah. And then they were, um, launching a new institute as part of this group, so Global Health and Infectious Disease Institute, and. I had helped with some press releases. I'd helped with some blogs, and I just was aggressive and I said, you need to put me in here to help with the communications for this.
Launch of this institute and, um, you know, I was, they put me in charge of the website and I found mentors across campus in the medical school and other places who helped me with media pitching and taught me and said, you have, they said, you have really good instincts. You know, here's, here's what you need to know about the news cycle and how it works, and, okay, you're ready to go talk to that New York Times reporter and set up that thing.
So I had really good mentors and I [00:21:00] found that I could. Focus on my lifelong, um, passion for there being more justice in the world and social issues. You know, my mom and I would talk about these when I was growing up, um, the Latino festival and being drawn to the, you know, the public health booths there.
And so I really felt like I was doing work that was helping people tangibly and. Building this skillset and I was having fun and it was a very different pace and I had to really teach myself how to undo, undo all my academic writing tendencies to write pr, language to. So that was kind of a learning curve.
That was kind of fun to let go of all the trappings of academic writing and write in a, in a more way. And I managed to convince them that they should put me in that role. And um, and then they promoted me into director. And I [00:22:00] really learned on the job. And I have great respect for everyone who has a PR comms journalism, business marketing degree.
My path was on the job learning. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Wow. There's like so many things here that I wanna point out, Lisa, first, the. Like the skillset. So this part stands out because I hear this so much from career flippers, these, and I sometimes refer to them as like golden threads or, or breadcrumbs. But like the fact that like the things that you learned in school back in the day when you, you know, are helping you in a completely different realm.
Because I think sometimes when people change or think about changing careers, it feels so daunting 'cause they're like. Well, I don't know this industry or I don't know how to do this. But the thing is when we stop and think, well, I do know how to do this 'cause I learned it here, and that can be applied here, sometimes it helps us feel a little more confident.
And when you said that, I [00:23:00] was like, oh yes. Like right there. Like you had these transferable skills that you were able to bring into this kind of new chapter. And then, you know, the other thing that stands out so much that I just like. Love because I could just like picture you like in this office and you're just like, Hey, put me in charge of that.
Like you asked, you took the initiative to just ask, you didn't necessarily feel like you had to prove yourself. You're just like, I, this is what I can bring to the table. And you asked, and I think right there, sometimes it's a matter of just like asking and trying and learning. Through that experience, you don't have the certification.
Okay? You don't have the degree. Whatever it is you're learning and you're doing it and asking the questions or asking for the opportunity can sometimes get a no, but it can sometimes, a lot of times get a yes. And I think that is kind of the scariest part. I mean, even like sliding into dms, I mean, even me reaching out to you through what I saw in that post of like, [00:24:00] Hey, I got this little podcast.
Like, um, you know, and just asking and just, just asking. So that's like, I mean, I think that is so important to call and so Awesome because. It led you down this new path? Like had you not ever asked, like, could you imagine, like if you never would've questioned the, you know, assistant executive, assistant opportunity and like just kind of did what you were told to do and like hadn't asked, like you'd be in a completely different place right now?
I would. I would. And that, you know, I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. Like I understood what those transferable skills were, but I did not have. The right network or the right way of, um, packaging it or pitching it for, you know, jobs outside for other jobs. Yeah. And that being on the job and being able to demonstrate it where I'm already there and they can already see those skills in action was really [00:25:00] critical.
Um, because I wasn't getting anywhere. Trying to find a job using those skills outside of where I was in that role. So, I mean, I'm very, um, I'm, yeah, I'm very, I'm very glad that I, that I asked, and I think that, you know, partly it, it worked because again, they could see the skills that were, that were there, and they also knew that there were more senior people to me.
Elsewhere on campus. Yeah. I could, you know, like mm-hmm. Check things with and learn from and collaborate with. And so if any, you know, any anxieties they had had, I don't know if they had them, but if they did about my, you know, ability or my instincts or what I was proposing, other people could validate.
That, but yes, this is the right way to approach this. Yeah, that mentorship right there, like, I mean that's gold. Like to be able to reach out to someone who knows this validate that get their wisdom and advice like on a silver platter, like right to you so you can just, [00:26:00] you know, really knock it out of the park is like incredible.
And I think right there, just being able to ask for help is also such a big component of. Changing careers and it, because we like, sometimes you just cannot do it without asking for that help. Yeah. So you did it. So you are, you're now moving forward in this, you have the mentors, you're getting the validation.
You are just freaking rocking it. And so what, like, how does this play out over the next several years? I was fortunate. In addition to all the reasons we just talked about that, um, around the time that this new institute was launched and when I was put in charge of communications for that, that, um, the researchers at UNC were part of a major HIV prevention study that had results that were so, um, groundbreaking.
So, um, changemaking [00:27:00] for, for, um, the field that. The NIH who was sponsoring it said, we can't wait for this study to finish for you to say the results that you're finding. They will, it will save lives. You have to put this out there. Yeah. And so I got to be part of the media team who was, you know, again, talking to the New York Times, talking to like every top tier paper is reaching out to talk to our people because this is.
You know, practically front page news, it was the cover of the Economist magazine. It was Science Magazine's, breakthrough of the Year, and like I am so, I'm so proud of the work that they did and I'm so grateful that I was there at that time to get to be part of, yeah. Such a big, um, a big story. And so I was able to, you know, I was able to use that experience and that being involved in something that, um, high profile and with that much media success to, um, you know, to, to work my way, to [00:28:00] work my way up.
And, um. You know, I had had, often, I was, so I'm in Chapel Hill, North Carolina at the time, and I'd had my eye on DC for a long time, um, as a place I wanted to be. And, um, so I just started to app applying for jobs there. And it, you know, like I applied for a lot before I, you know, found something, but, but, you know, got a job that was a, you know, a step up and that got me into DC and, um.
Yeah, just built, continued to build my, my skillset. There's an interesting, um, experience though, as someone who has the path that I had because yeah, I said, Hey coach, put me in. I can do this. But I had imposter syndrome syndrome for sure, because I didn't have the degree, I didn't follow the straight trajectory.
I, um, [00:29:00] and so. I, I kept learning, of course, but I also got a great charge when I would show up in an environment, a learning event of some kind and think, oh, I know this stuff already and I do it. So that was like validating that, yeah, I didn't know how to do this job. Doesn't mean there's not things I can learn, but, but I needed those experiences multiple times to feel like I wasn't making it up as I go along anymore.
Right. And that's, I mean, imposter syndrome is so, there's so much pressure with that, that that can like put you in like what analysis paralysis. Like you could, it could just stop you in your tracks. So it sounds like you felt it and then, you know, maybe you reached out and got that validation and then you needed to do it a few more times until it was really.
Feeling like the imposter syndrome was maybe taken a seat back. Is that right? Or, yeah. Yeah. What else helped you kind of push through it? Because it's gonna [00:30:00] be there, but like what, what other things, or if there was anything else helped you kind of navigate that? I think really just, you know, work wins big projects that went off well.
Um. You know, was able to, had the opportunity to lead some big, you know, like a brand refresh and a, you know, some, some really big projects for an organization and, and have some, um, good results from those. So I think just between building my network and um. And those wins and you know, those opportunities to kind of be reminded that I'm not, that I'm not an imposter and you know, I'm the only one who felt it.
You know, if I ever confessed it to somebody in my network who I'd worked with, they'd say I would never Right. Never thought that about you, and I never would've guessed that you feel that. So, you know, fake it till you make it, I guess. Yeah. Right, right. So [00:31:00] you made it to DC and you moved up and. Yeah, you just, you made it happen in a way that maybe, you know, when you were studying musicology, you never thought would've ever been your career path.
And I'm curious, Lisa, if you were to look back and, and I don't know, offer. Some words of advice to your younger self who was in the middle of studying musicology, and when you had just made that decision to, you know, to, to go that path. Is there anything that you know now that you would've told yourself that you would like to tell yourself, your younger version?
I think it would be two things that are kind of the push and the pull of it. Mm-hmm. Um, one is you are smart and you have, you're adaptable. And you can do this. Like you set your mind to it. You can, you can do this. Um, and if there's anything you know how to do, it's work [00:32:00] hard and keep clawing, you know, keep clawing at it.
When I would have moments of doubt, even though I had also lots of good, I was good at musicology for a baby musicologist, I was good at it. Yeah. But the other piece would be trust your instincts and listen to. Listen to your heart because I probably would've left the program sooner. I don't know what path that would've put me on or where I would've ended up.
I was trying to, I think, well, you committed to this, so do it. And also meet other people's expectations. Um, 'cause there were people telling me how good I was at it and how I was gonna contribute to the field and stuff. So, but just because they think that or say that doesn't mean I have to do it. Right, right.
Yeah. So probably the biggest piece of advice would be to, to trust yourself and listen, listen to that voice inside. And it's a voice I still struggle to listen to sometimes. Like [00:33:00] the most recent transition that I made that we've alluded to, like that one, required me to, um, to tune into that voice a lot.
So now share a little bit about that. Because you've listened to that voice and you've, you're a few months in. Mm-hmm. Or maybe a, a few days shy of a few months, but like you're in it. So what was that? What led to that? And, uh, what exactly is it that, uh, keeps you doing this? Yeah. So one of the things I've.
Had to, uh, admit about myself or notice about myself is that, um, I like variety and I feel that, yeah. So, you know, you know, some people, you know, I've been consistently working for mission-driven organizations for throughout my career, but it's been in, I. Global health. It's been in international economic development, it's been in workforce development, it's been in community [00:34:00] development, finance, applying communication skills.
So that's the through line, but different issues. Mm-hmm. And I can get passionate about. The more I learn about any issue, like I'm in it, like I believe this, this is important to work on, and I'm, and I'm, uh, charged by that. But then I also feel like, well, what's the next, what's the next thing? So. Um, and, but I wasn't, I was kind of reaching a point where I wasn't exactly sure, you know, okay, well here's a different issue in the nonprofit sector and, and it's a step up.
So you know, this would be a logical step for your next job if you're ready to move on. And that none of it felt, it just didn't feel. Mm-hmm. Right. It wasn't sparking joy, as I say. Um, and I was thinking about that desire for. Variety and the idea of having different clients at one time. So you're doing different kinds of work at one time.
Um, and at the same time I had met [00:35:00] some new, um, women in my professional world who were doing, who had started their own businesses and um, I don't know if it's something about when I met them and these jobs not sparking for me and being at the age that I am and just feeling. Like there was a, there's some, there was a weird entrepreneurial drive that I was feeling that is not normally who I am.
I don't think of it as who I am. And you know, these women were really encouraging and connecting me with as many people as possible. And, um, you know, as soon as I put it out in the world, I'm not just thinking about making this move, like, I'm gonna make this move. Do you know of anybody who needs work like now, not hypothetical work, but like actual work and.
So, and the fir first person, I said that out loud to, said, yes, actually, let me connect you with this person. And that ended up becoming my first contract that allowed me to say, you know what? I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this. [00:36:00] And um, and I had people say, you know, you're probably gonna have more work than you can handle in not much time.
I was working with a coach at, at the time who also was saying that. Um, that, you know, you're gonna start with this and you can pay your bills with it, and then you're gonna find in no time you have more work than you can take on. And, um, and people saying, you will say to yourself, you, I should have done this sooner.
You know, for all the reasons, like building your own thing, you know, obviously you have to, you're supporting the client, but you know, you're, you're driving, you're driving the sh. Bus ship. I don't know. Whatever. You know, I'm in the driver's seat. That's what I'm trying. Right. There you go. Yes. And, and it's, it's only, it hasn't even been three months.
And it's true. Like it feel, it just feels good. It feels right. And um, I'm thinking I could have done this sooner. Yeah. That's amazing. That's amazing. Do [00:37:00] you find imposter syndrome creeps up at all throughout this part of your journey, or is it pretty much just like, no, this is exactly what I'm supposed to do and I can do it?
Um, there's a little bit of it around and I know it's just, it's not about imposter syndrome, it's just a learning curve is how do you, how do you ask for what you're worth, right? When you're trying to, you know, your, your rates, what's the right way to. Price this thing, you know, the fixed versus the hourly versus the, to make sure.
So learning and trusting that I'm probably gonna get some of these wrong. Like, oh, well that took me way more time than I thought and I charged them a fixed price. So my hourly rate ended up being very small. You know, I'm, but I feel comfortable knowing that I've got a support network of people who know, uh, have made the mistakes, have learned, um, and that I'm just gonna make mistakes.
And they're probably not gonna be disastrous. They'll just be. Well, [00:38:00] yeah. Now I know if I'm asked to do a project like that, that this is how long it's gonna take and this is how I should structure it, but, but it's, it feels, it feels a little bit weird to say there's something about asking for a salary that's like a number versus saying, I'm going to charge you.
I am charging you this amount to do this. Yeah. Right, right. It's a little bit different. Yeah. And sometimes the imposter syndrome creeps in a little bit. Yeah. No, that totally makes sense. But from your, your experience and learning on the job and learning from experience, it sounds like that is just kind of a part of this career path evolution for you.
It's just like the more you do it and actually we could check in, in like six months. I'd be curious the more you do it, like Yeah. Or is it just like, oh, it's not so weird anymore. Or there are different ways or what you, you've learned and, and that it's okay to just go into it and make some of these mistakes early on.
And learn from them and then move on. Like, I think that can be what [00:39:00] holds people back sometimes. Like, oh, well I don't know what to charge, so I'm not gonna do anything at all. And it's like, oh, well what if you just kind of start here and Yeah. What happens? Yeah. Or what if you say that, you know what seems like, can I actually ask for that?
You say that amount and you mm-hmm. Find out what they say. You hear what they say. Um, I will say there are some. People in my, in, in my broader circle, very broader circle, all of them women who I think are underselling themselves, even with my minimal knowledge. But of course I've hired consultants plenty of time.
So, you know, I'm aware. So, um, I don't know, maybe at some point my, my, my calling will be to make sure that women are asking for what they deserve. I know I wouldn't be the only voice in there. There's plenty of women who are doing that, but just wanna make sure that, you know, we're. Get what we deserve for the quality of work that we're doing.
Oh yeah, absolutely. That's, I mean, I can speak to that, that's so hard. [00:40:00] And I know multiple times I just was willing to take less, just to have something than to ask what I was worth and, um, and even, you know, give them the chance to say yes or no. Um, and so, 'cause it was just easier to do it and it's scary.
But you're doing it. You're living it, and you're making it happen. And Lisa, like your journey, like everything of where you are and where you're at now, like it's just, I, I feel like I just learned a so much from you through this episode, and I want people to be able to connect with you and learn more about you and who knows, hire you, work with you, all the things.
So Lisa, where can people find you? How can they connect with you? So the website for my new business is chens volt communications.com, but you can also find me directly on LinkedIn under my name, my personal [00:41:00] account, uh, Lisa Chens Volt. And those are the two best places to find me and I'd love to talk about making a career flip to talk about working together anything.
Amazing. Lisa, thank you so much for sharing your journey here on the Career Flipper. I, I just, I love that we talked so early on and now we're here and just hearing this journey and I know that like this will not be the last time we talk, and I'm just, I'm really, really excited for you. So thank you so much.
I'm just honored to have you here. Thank you so much for asking me. It's been a real pleasure. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the Career Flipper podcast. To connect with Lisa, check out all the links in the show notes if you loved this conversation or just made you feel a little more human in the middle of your own.
What am I doing with my life Spiral? Do me a quick favor. Leave a review [00:42:00] wherever you're listening. It helps more career flipping folks. Find the show and. It reminds me that this work matters. Truly every word means the world. I read every single one of them. And if you're hosting an event or a gathering and you want someone to come speak about flipping careers, identity shifts, uh, second chances or just.
Starting messy and scared. I would love to be part of it. Head over to the career flipper.com and drop me a note. And if you're super curious, when I'm not behind the mic, I'm probably in the garage rescuing a junk piece of furniture that I found on the curb. And if you wanna see those makeovers and my dog, Dwight supervising, come hang out with me over on Instagram at San Diego Furniture Flipper.
Remember you've got this. Every little step, even the weird wobbly ones, is progress. So what's the best that could [00:43:00] happen?