Laid off? Now what? Finding healing, hope and your next step with Steve Jaffe, Author of The Layoff Journey
When host Jenny Dempsey got laid off back in 2022, she had no clue what I was doing. She was crying on her couch, trying to figure out who she even was without my job. No one hands you a guide for that kind of loss. It honestly felt like the ground fell out from under her.
And then along comes Steve Jaffe. Turns out, he literally wrote the book I wish I had back then: The Layoff Journey: From Dismissal to Discovery.
Steve’s been through four layoffs (yes, four!) and instead of letting it crush him, he mapped out the stages of grief that come with job loss. Reading his book brought up so many of my own memories, everything from the shock and shame to that messy process of rebuilding your identity. It made me cry, it gave me hope, and it reminded me I’m not alone.
In this conversation with Steve, we talk about:
This one hit so close to home for me, and if you’ve ever been laid off, or even just wondered who you are without your job, I think it’ll resonate with you too.
Connect with Steve
So when I got laid off, there was no handbook. I didn't know what I was doing. I was, uh, honestly sitting on my couch crying. 'cause I moved from my remote office into the living room and was like, what just happened? Um, and I didn't realize that the feelings that I was feeling were grief. I didn't realize these things.
And, and again, there's. I didn't think there was a book for it. I didn't even think to look up a book for it. But the power of podcasting and the fact that I almost didn't even start this podcast and now it has brought me you, Steve, and you have found the podcast and you literally wrote the book, the Layoff Journey from Dismissal to Discovery.
And if I would've had this book in November, 2022, when I first got laid off, there would've been a lot of things that I would've taken away. But I went through it and when I was reading this book over the last few weeks, it just brought back a lot for me and I have a lot to say and a lot of questions for you.
Steve. Welcome to the Career Flipper. I'm so happy you're here. Thank you. Thank you. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me. And, um, I, I'm glad that book resonated for you. Thank you. Oh, we'll get into so many things. Resonated, made me cry, made me feel like, okay, it's gonna be all right. All the things.
Tell everybody a little bit about you, where you are and what you're doing now, and then we'll dive into all the ways you got to this point of writing this book. Sure, sure. Um, well, uh, I should say I'm a San Diego native. I know you're in San Diego. And, um, so I still live in Southern California, just up the road in LA and, um, I, I, I'm now proud to say I'm an author.
Um, I spent a long time in advertising and marketing, uh, across a lot of different, um, career paths, if you will, in industries. Um, uh, we share a common. Bond and also being in the software and tech space. I was a, a product marketer for SaaS, um, startup, a number of them. Um, and, um, I had always wanted to write a book.
I just didn't have the subject matter. And, um, summer 2023, I experienced my fourth layoff. And, um, I had found that I had some experience there. I, I like to say that I have my 10,000 hours of experience in being, you know, somebody who's laid off. And I found that those skills and that experience was something I wanted to convey to my coworkers were laid off with me.
And, um, the evolution of that is what became the, the fire that sparked this book. Um, and really, um, um, helping people navigate those stages of grief after job loss. I'm really glad that you got laid off and wrote this book. I know that sounds weird, but I know you get it. Um, I know people who have gotten laid off and who've moved, you know, through these different, you know, parts of the journey, which we'll get into, will get that comment that it's oddly enough, the worst moment, but also the best thing that can happen and.
I just think four layoffs. Like I had one and I felt crushed. And it's two years later and I still, or three years later. Gosh. And I still feel, I mean, there's still, uh, residual things mm-hmm. To, that we'll talk about. And so if you, you know, without giving too much away, that's in the book, like if you can kind of sum it up like.
What was it like the first time you got laid off? What was that experience like for you? And you know, these things that you wrote about you maybe, did you know about them then? Were you just kind of going through it, like, tell me a little bit more. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. My first layoff, I had zero coping skills and um, that's probably why it affected me as hard as it did.
So first layoff, um, it was spring 2001. I was living in San Francisco. I had just gotten married. I was working at an ad agency and we were pretty successful. I was being, I was, um, successful. The agency was successful, things were going great. And, um, suddenly without any warning, I was called into a conference room one day and very, uh, short order told, thank you.
The client's cutting their budget and we have to cut staff. And you have five minutes to clean out your desk. And I was completely blindsided and in total shock. Um, it was, uh, it, it, it just was devastating. I, I found that, um, I was somebody who, um, derived my personal value and identity from my job. Um, I was what I did and, um, having been, uh, lost that job, I didn't know who I was.
Um, so I spent about 18 months, um, really, really in turmoil. And um, um, then fast forward again, summer 2023, fourth layoff, and it was like water off duck's back. And what I found was that over the years, over the course of those four layoffs, I had learned a set of skills. That helped me navigate those challenges.
I learned, um, uh, a healthy kind of work life balance. I learned how to find identity outside of my work. Um, I learned just kind of baseline mind, body, spirit, um, healthy living that, um, gave me the resources when life threw me any challenge, um, including the layoff. That, that let me, um, come out the other side, um, maybe without as much, um, um, time spent coping and managing.
Um, um, so that's, um, that's what I laid out in the book is, is that experience in those lessons so that. My goal is when somebody reads the book, they're able to process their own layoff. Um, not in 18 months, but in just a short period of time. Um, that will then help them get back on the road to their next job, um, and, and, and move past this in a way that it doesn't become like a life or career defining moment in a, in a negative way.
Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yes to all of that. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna have a lot of speechless moments here, but, but I think, I mean, the comment that you just spoke on of like fourth lay of, I like water off a duck's back Wow. To get to this point. And also touching on work, being identity, because that is exactly. Who I was as well.
I literally thought customer experience in the tech world, that's who I am. That's what I've done. That's what I know. That is all I'm good at. These are the things I told myself and I didn't question it. I didn't question anything else. I didn't question the fact that I was, you know, working so much and putting my creative endeavors on the side, even though, you know, maybe it's just for fun.
Like, I was still like, no, no, no. Or like putting, you know, not seeing friends, all these things. And then I get laid off and I'm like. It was a smack in the face that I, I didn't know I needed. But I think what I love most about your book, Steve, is that, and I'm holding it in front of me. I know everyone can see, but.
It's broken down into chapters by stages. And when I had first gotten layoff, 'cause I am a newbie in the layoff world, uh, I, I knew there was some grief because six months prior to getting laid off, my dad died. And I was already in the stages of grief of trying to figure it out because on his deathbed, which it sounds like I'm making up the story, but he was literally, uh, in the hospital in Glendora and laying in his bed looking at me and he is like.
The last words that I heard him say to me were, I wish I wouldn't have worked so much. Wow. And I was just like, here he is laying on his deathbed and he is telling me this. 'cause I didn't get to know him as well as I could throughout my life because he was always working. Yeah. And it was pivotal. And then six months later to get laid off, my whole identity completely shook.
Yeah. But I didn't realize these stages. I figured, okay, yes, there's grief. I did lose something. But you also talk about this, the denial phase and the pain, and you know, all like depression, acceptance, negotiation, reconstruction. I'm reading 'em out of order, but there's renewal at the end and it's just like, these are things that I didn't realize that I was gonna have to experience.
And as you're going through them. It's like, I mean, I, I just kind of think of molasses. You're trying to get through this and it's like a sludge some of these times, and then you have this glimmer of hope because maybe you get a job interview, but then they're like, oh, that's not gonna work out. I had 400 job rejections and two years, and I was just like, what?
Who am I? Yeah. And then I started picking up furniture off the side of the road and fixing it up and selling it, and I'm like, this is who I am now. Right, right. Going a little unhinged. And so I'm wondering if you can talk about, you know, as you go through these stages, as you mentioned, you know, whether it's.
18 months that you go through it, whether it's five years, like there's always going to, there's no timeframe, there's no promise of how long it will take. And I think even, and maybe you can speak to this too years later, things might come up. I, I know you mentioned in here, you know, work friendships and how your relationships are and how there's a level of trust that might not be there right away, or just different things that may come up later.
But can you talk about the stages and like as you move through 'em, how. It's really fricking hard. Yeah. Yeah. And you may not know. Yeah. Yeah. So the stages of grief were interesting. They, they were created by Elizabeth Kubler Ross, um, as she was working with, um, terminally Ill patients. And she observed that they all went through this similar kind of process.
And then similarly, as the research went on, um, the, the, the loved ones, the friends and family of those terminally ill people also went through this. Now it's kind of the, um, accepted, um, maybe methodology around, uh, how people process traumatic events in their life. So, um, whether it's a divorce, um, or a, a layoff, your, your body has a way of, of processing, um, and, and moving through it in a way that, um.
Emotionally, physically, mentally, spiritually. It, it, it, it, it is sort of, um, um, inherent to our, our, our. Person, right? So, uh, and, and each stage, um, is unique and, and not everyone goes through every stage. Maybe, certainly, maybe not every stage is pronounced as, um, another one. Some may hold larger weight than others based on somebody's life experience and their own circumstances.
Um, and it's rare that you may experience them. Linearly, um, concurrently, it, it's a bit, um, maybe less orderly than it's laid out in the book as like subsequent chapters, but I can guarantee you, um, it's likely that you will feel some, if not all of these, to some degree. Um, and uh, some of them kind of like protect us.
So when you're in denial and you're in that shock and awe and your body starts kind of shutting down, it's your own body's, um, safety mechanism. It's a safety response. 'cause you're being overwhelmed and flooded with this stimuli that you can't possibly process all at once, right? Yeah. Your paycheck is gone, your insurance is gone, your job, your title, your friends, your colleagues.
Um, all in a matter of minutes. You, you can't process that. So your body starts like turning things off, right? Yeah. Um, anger is a great way to vent. It's a great way to express something that's been taken from you. Um, mindful of doing it in a healthy way, right? And not like ruminating in anger, but it's a normal response.
And I think all of these things. Giving yourself the space and grace to say this is normal, and accepting that whatever it is that you're feeling, um, it's okay. And, um. Uh, just to kind of sit with that. You know, I think one of the things that we want to avoid, and one of the, my goals for this book is to remove some of the shame and embarrassment that come from a layoff.
Um, that's really detrimental. And it's unfortunately something that people who have been laid off, um, tend to feel pretty, pretty heavily. It weighs on them. You know, a layoff isn't something that you generally, um, are responsible for. It's not like you, you did something to deserve it. It was not like, uh, you weren't a bad performer.
Um, you know, there's a whole other set of circumstances of, of why somebody may get fired, but this isn't that. This is from no fault of your own, so. Um, you shouldn't have that shame or embarrassment because, um, you're sort of a victim of the circumstances, right? And, um, these are all the things that, you know, like I try and break down so that people don't carry that, right?
Mm-hmm. Um, and. That's part of that journey of moving through the stages so that when you do get to the, the end of them, um, or at least to a point where, um, they're not holding you back. Because one of the challenges is if you don't feel these things and, and manage them, they can manifest in how you show up to job interviews, even how you maybe write your resume.
Um. If you do get hired, maybe baggage that you bring into that new job. So it's really important. What I like to say is before you jump into, um, writing your resume and sending out, sending out, going on job and reviews, work through some of this stuff, it will serve you down the line, but also importantly, you may end up doing the work and finding that that career path that you were on.
No longer serves you. It's not a passion. Um, it's not something that is aligned with your personal values maybe. And maybe it doesn't bring you joy. Um, maybe the industry that you're in is undergoing contraction. It's time for a career pivot, right? So, um, it, you know, um,
oh, the phrase, the necessity, uh, the mother of invention. Um. I'm trying to think of what that phrase is. Um, but, uh, I can't think of it right now, but, uh, yeah, I can't either. But sometimes layoffs are, yeah, the, the, the opportunity for a pivot like yourself. Yeah. You found something that I think probably brings you joy, gives you a lot of freedom.
Um, and, uh, it's, it's in a totally unexpected area that you would've never found if you had continued on the path that you were on. And sometimes layoffs allow people to discover, um, that side of maybe another life or a new life. Yeah, yeah. So many, so many things that I want to touch on here because the shame part, I'm gonna start there with that.
Yeah. Because. There's kind of this expectation that when you get laid off, you go on LinkedIn and you make this post that says, you know, uh, it's, you know, it's the exit post, but you don't actually say why. You're just like, I am starting a new chapter and I'm leaving, you know, my time at this company, blah, blah.
And it's supposed to be this positive, uplifting thing, but you don't actually say the thing. And I see these posts and I did one myself because I thought, you know, I was talking to other colleagues who got laid off, like, did you do your post yet? Did you do your post like. No, not yet. But like, I just was like, do I have to, that feels weird, but I did it because of the pressure.
Mm-hmm. And because I thought, oh, this is, this is what you do. And I even had a colleague a few weeks later was just like, she called me and she's like, you know, I'm applying for a new job. Will you be a reference? I'm like, sure. She's like, just don't mention the layoff. I don't want them to know I got laid off.
Hmm. And it was very much like, wait, what? You're not supposed to say it. And this was so new territory for me that I was like. But it wasn't your fault. Like why would they judge you for that? But it was like, no. So I instantly was like, oh my God, I can't talk about this. Right? And then when I did start to just network with other colleagues and share what's going on, they made that also very clear.
Oh yeah. Don't put that out on any social media. Don't talk about, don't tell employers, don't mention that. Just say you left, you know, for whatever reason. Or you know, just make something up. I really took this, um, I carried that shame. Yeah. And I did not do anything about it. I just kept going and applying to jobs and literally feverishly writing my resume over and over, applying it to each individual job, you know, um, clicking the, what is it?
Quick apply on LinkedIn. Yeah. And just going through it like so quick, getting ghosting or, you know, hearing nothing back or getting instant rejections or getting in interviews and they're just, it's just not the right fit. And it was just like. What is, what am I doing? And I remember taking this moment where it's like, I think I need a day to not be sitting at the computer for six hours doing this.
Because there is this expectation that you lose your job and then you're supposed to just get one again, right? Like it's supposed to be that easy. But when you break down all of these things, and exactly what you said, like taking that time before you just jump into it, you may not go through all of these stages, but to give yourself permission to feel that.
I was not doing I, and it did manifest quickly. I am a person who feels my feelings and I can't hide them. And it was a lot of crying. It was a lot of over exercising. It was a lot of just pushing myself when I didn't want to and just thinking that I had to do all these things. But when I really sat down, and especially, I mean, this sounds so cheesy, but I feel like you'll get this.
When I started piecing together the furniture finding. A piece of trash on the side of the road that someone's throwing away. Right. I saw myself in that. I saw that table and I was like, yeah. That's how I feel right now. Yeah. I was able to take my feelings and put it into this tangible item and then I took it in and was like, I have zero experience.
And I didn't know how to use a orbital sander. I didn't know how to like the difference of paint stains, oil and water base. I didn't know these things, but I was just like, you know what, I'm gonna figure this out. And after that one table that I completely revamped and just like brought it back to life, I was like.
There's this part of myself that I felt like I was doing that for, and that the chapter that you have about reconstruction or reinvention or restoration really applied to me because I feel like even though furniture restoration has turned into a side business, which I'll share more about that, and my goal is for so much more at this point, but.
It became a healing tool. Yeah, and I think part, and you, you mentioned this and you're like, there are things when we are, are aligned with our values. Like to find it, it doesn't have to turn out to be a business. It doesn't have to, but you know, sometimes we'll do silly things when we're in these. Stages of grief.
It opened and it kind of unlocks. I like to say it cracked my mind open, but like I never would have done this had I not gotten laid off and had this complete identity shift and to see a piece of trash that now in my, I get tech. Messages all the time from friends of pictures. I can't tell you how many pictures of trash furniture I have on my, and they'll drop a pin.
It's here on this corner. Perfect. I'm gonna go pick it up. And I, you know, it's things like that, that became very healing and restorative in the weirdest way. And so I think leaning into your book, like really being open and accepting of, yeah. The shame that comes in, letting yourself feel that, but doing the things that may feel really kind of wacky and leaning into that because they could lead to this next big thing that.
It's just you never saw yourself doing and suddenly now you're doing it and you can't imagine not ever doing it. Right, right, right. Yeah. There's an opportunity for a pivot after a layoff that you just don't have the time to discover when you're working, you know, 60 hours a week and you're, when you're just head down on your career path, you don't have that opportunity for like introspection and examination.
In the pause that a layoff presents, you're given a, an opportunity to, to just do some of that exploration and discovery and like layoffs suck. And, and I, I feel like, um. They can be a blessing in disguise. They genuinely suck. But when you come out the other end of it, and maybe you've, you've rekindled the passion.
Mm-hmm. Or maybe you've, you've rediscovered a new career path or maybe after this exploration you've decided you really love what you're doing or you wanna stay on that path. Mm-hmm. That's fantastic validation that you may not have been able to discover previously. Yeah. Whatever that journey is for you.
Um, taking this pause to just kind of do some work, you know, um, mind, body, spirit, I be, I'm a big believer in a holistic approach. Um, all of those things were serve you well, not only in managing this layoff, but in any challenge life throws at you. Um, it, it, it, it can be, um. An opportunity to, to find some resilience, to find some tenacity, um, to foster some grit, you know?
Um, and, um, it, it, it, it can be, um, you know, I can be an opportunity. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It absolutely can be. Whether or not you pivot, whether you stay in the same type of role with a different company can move to a better company culture. You can move to something completely different that you learn something new and who knows what it will lead to in your career.
And I think it really, it really helps to just give yourself permission to be curious. Yeah. One of the parts in your book, it's toward the end, and I have it highlighted because it's a section titled Which chapter is this thing? Actually, it's, it's toward the end, but it's, you know, I'm just gonna read the section title.
It's how do I Ask Better Questions? Mm-hmm. And I think I really loved this because one of the things that, uh, you know, as I've mentioned a few times during our chat, I don't know what I'm doing and I didn't know what I was doing then. I'm still figuring it out now, but I think asking questions. Whether or not you think they're dumb, just asking them and you know, really putting yourself out there to get curious and you say, not judgmental.
And really just ask questions. If you see someone on LinkedIn and they're doing a job that maybe you're interested in, I don't know, sliding into their dms, or if you see someone, you know, you meet them at a networking event, set up a time for coffee. Like just ask people, what's it like doing this or. How did you get to this point and get really curious and ask yourself questions as well.
I think that's the thing that eventually when I kind of was like, after some of the smoke and dust settled, um, or sawdust, I guess I could say at this point, after the sawdust kind of settled, I, I started to just ask myself a little bit more of like. Well, what am I doing and what do I wanna do? Instead of just thinking what does my boss want me to do and what do I think, um, you know, society wants me to do?
And I started to just ask myself different types of questions. Um, it became something that it just asking yourself a question as you are also asking others questions for things, you start to see how no one knows what they're doing. Yeah. But also people are still. Open to supporting and helping and giving wisdom and sharing their experiences, and you suddenly feel less alone.
Mm-hmm. You're like, oh, okay. It's okay to have these feelings, but it's also okay to not know. And it's okay to try and mess up. Yeah. Like making mistakes is amazing. Failing is amazing. Let's keep doing that more and celebrating what you mess up on. Because you just learn so much and through all of these furniture restoration projects, especially the early ones where I didn't have the right safety gear or I was, you know, I smacked my finger on a nail and I was like, what am I doing?
Like, you know, or the wrong stain are using, finding out I'm allergic to paint stripper, who knew? And I get very bad sinus infections. But like these little mistakes have made it so much more accessible for me to be open to. It's a grieving process and to be open to moving on. Um, just this past January, I really like it.
I, it had been two years, couldn't find a job. I was doing little odds and ends of contracting work and this and that, but. Barely paid the bills. I was doing the furniture. And of course it just takes a while to build your own business. Um, and one of my friends had a full-time corporate job that was open and I really was just like, I don't think I can go back again.
I can't trust corporate. Yeah. Yeah. And you talk about this in your book as well, like going back into it and like we even just, I mean you briefly mentioned of like there's like this element of. What the baggage you carry with you when you step into something new. Mm-hmm. And so I, I ended up taking it and it's a, you know, it's.
The company, the people at the company are great. Obviously, I don't wanna be working in corporate. It's hybrid, so I'm not used to that and I'm adjusting. And it's actually, you know it, the job is great on paper and I'm so grateful for a paycheck, but I just wanna be in the garage building my own business.
I'm working on furniture and so I had to. Reframe what I was doing and I was like, this is not gonna be my forever job. I decide that not a company, if they lay me off, cool, whatever, just like you said, water off a duck's bag. But I am deciding that and they are now the investor in my dreams and I'm able to build the things on the side.
And, you know, really make things happen. But it's, I don't think I ever could have gotten to that place. If I would've just gotten a job immediately after getting laid off. Yeah, I would've carried it all in. Now I'm struggling with different types of things, trusting, corporate, don't do it. I can't, I'm not there yet.
But I do focus on my values, the connection, the relationships with other people. You know, my creativity, how I can bring. Furniture flipping into, I don't know, something with customer experience, like, how can I do this? Because I can't show up at work the way that I used to and just do what I'm told. And I just, it's just, it's very interesting.
And so I'm curious, you know, you've been laid off four times, so you've had that as well. You got laid off, you found something new. What was it like for you in that kind of. Maybe the first time you got laid off and then going back to work afterwards, were there any like residual things that you found that were kind of challenging or maybe you mentioned a couple things, but Yeah.
Yeah. I think one of the things I struggled a lot with was, um, that somehow this was my fault. I did something to deserve this. I was somehow, um, like less than, and it was a statement on maybe my work or my performance, even though it wasn't. Um, I carried that for a while. It was hard to say. No. You know what, um, I was just a name on the list that they needed to cut salary, um, because they had to drive revenue to the bottom line.
And, um, the client cut their budget and, and there was nothing that could be done. So, um, that took a long time to come to terms with, um. I think a scar that took me a long time to heal from that I'm not sure I'm totally recovered from, is the, the embarrassment of you have to put your stuff in a box. Like you have five minutes to clean out your desk and then you have to walk out the door.
And a lot of places I've worked are, um, open concept, so you're doing this in front of everybody. That was something that I don't think I ever recovered from because after that. I, I brought in like very few items, like personal items to an office. Um, so if you ever came in my office, it was always like empty and stark.
Yeah. Because I never wanted that embarrassment of cleaning out my desk in front of people, you know? Yeah. So, um, that was something that I write about that experience in the book, um, that it just, that was too much. I couldn't do that again. So yeah, there are things like that that. You carry and, and I felt like, okay, well me not bringing personal items into the office isn't that big of a deal, right?
But me feeling like I am, um, maybe not intelligent or I'm not successful, or I'm not like a good worker, uh, because I got laid off that, that had some negative. Implications that I definitely needed to work through. Mm-hmm. So, um, you know, I also talk about depression as well. Um, I, I, um, when I went through that first layoff.
Um, I didn't realize I had a propensity for depression and suddenly here I am really depressed. And, um, that was also a, a, a bit of a journey for me to, to understand, um, how my mind can easily go to some dark places and. Which means then I need to fight really hard to keep myself positive to positive self-talk, positive self-esteem, all of those things.
So, and, and, and fortunately that's had really good ramifications throughout my life because now I actively, um, um, process and pursue like positive self-talk and I've done a lot of work there. Um, that's helped me in, in, in other ways, including, um, layoff and, and, and through all four of them. So, yeah, it's, it's a process and it's a journey and, um, it, it is difficult.
Hopefully through the book I'm able to make it a little bit less difficult for people by giving them the roadmap that I followed and, and where I found some comfort and some suc success. Yeah, well you definitely lay it out in a way that's so realistic. I mean, you share your stories we've woven in and additional to other stats that you have or other, you know, people's stories in here.
And then you also have questions throughout that people can answer. And I think I may have mentioned like some of the questions, like, especially in the earlier, you know, chapters, the harder parts, like sometimes it's hard to answer these or to reflect inward and be like, I have to admit this about this.
And so going through there, I feel like. For me personally, it's the kind of book that, yeah, I got laid off in 2022 and now, like things are very different, but it's a book that I would probably revisit because I know there is still residual of things that I am working through. Um, and I think that going back and looking at the questions again and, you know, really thinking through them is kind of this, it's a, it's a nice way to look at your personal growth and see where you've gone through this journey.
You have it. Like it's, it's in stone in a way. When you write it in here and you write your answers and you go back a year later and you're like, wow, I have been through this. Yes. Wow. Have I do see progress? I am better now and wow, I can't believe where I am now. Or, you know, whatever it is. And then, you know, I just think that that's, I don't know, it's a really, it's a gift to have, as cheesy as that sounded, is an absolute gift to have because being able to see your own progress through a journey like this.
Is incredibly rewarding and just keeps you motivated to move forward and not just, and not just sit in, in the, you know, messy, which we all have to go through, but if you just keep sitting there and don't try to move out through, you know, these ways that you experience the, all the feelings you'll miss out on so many opportunities and, yeah.
Steve, you've outlined this so well, and I, I feel like we could talk about this for a very long time, and I know that it's just, yeah. I'm just really, really grateful again that you got laid off and that you wrote this book for us, because now we have it available to learn from and to move. I know so many people listening to this may be in this exact situation and they want to pick this book up because maybe they just got laid off yesterday.
Yeah. And I am curious before we wrap up and I have you share where they can buy it, I am wondering, Steve, if you can just give one last piece of advice to the person who maybe they did just get laid off yesterday. Yeah. What would you tell them? Yeah. Yeah. I, I would tell them, um, that it's okay. That, um, the, the feelings that you're feeling, uh, are okay and they're normal, and, uh, it's gonna be hard, but you're gonna get through this.
And, um, this isn't a declaration on who you are as a person or what you've done. Um, this is a, um, uh, a small, uh, page in, in a much larger chapter, in a much larger book. So, um. Um, it's okay, but you, you're gonna get through this. Well said. Yeah. That kind of gave, gave me chills because I wish that I could have heard those words.
The day after I got laid off. And, um, but thank you Steve, so much for being here. How can people find you and connect with you and pick up a copy of the layoff journey? Sure. Um, well just go to amazon.com and you can type in the layoff journey. Uh, you'll find my book there. Uh, you can learn more on my website, uh, thus steve jaffe.com.
There's a free chapter there, so if you want to check it out before you purchase it, um, feel free to download the free chapter. Uh, you can find me on substack, you can find me on Instagram. I'm Steve Jaffe, the op Journey, and we can also connect on LinkedIn. Um, and I would love to connect with, um, anyone.
Uh, I would love to hear about their layoff journey, uh, where they are in it, um, and, um. I'd love to be a, uh, a, a service to anybody that's going through, um, what can be a really difficult time. Thank you Steve. Mm-hmm. That's so generous for you to give your time, and I really hope everyone does pick up a copy because it will.
Uh uh, it's gonna really impact your layoff experience if that's what you're going through right now. I just, again, it's the book that I wish that I would've had, and I am so glad you wrote it. Thank you so much for being here, Steve. I appreciate you so much. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate you having me.
It's been wonderful talking with you. Thank you.