From software engineer to customer experience to AI entrepreneur, meet Mariena Quintanilla in Los Angeles, CA.
In this episode, you’ll meet Mariena Quintanilla, a Los Angeles-based career flipper who proves you can pivot, even within the same industry.
After spending nearly two decades in tech, moving through roles in software engineering, product management, solutions architecture, and customer experience (plus navigating a layoff), Mariena had a realization: she didn’t want to keep climbing the corporate ladder but she still loved tech.
So, she made the leap. Today, Mariena runs Mellonhead.co, an AI education and consulting company helping others make sense of emerging technology.
In our conversation, we talk about:
Mariena doesn’t sugarcoat the messy middle. She shares what it really felt like to start over, the fears she faced, and the courage it took to rebuild on her own terms.
Connect with Mariena
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mariena/
Website: https://mellonhead.co/
00:00:00] And I ended up at some point shaming myself again because I'm like, marina, you're 11, 12 months into being laid off and you can't even tell your friends what it is you do and what value you bring. And that's when I spiraled and I had to like figure out like why that was. And what the hard truth was for me was you don't wanna go back into corporate.
You don't wanna work in a tech company. That was, for me, the hard truth that I had to uncover was actually, you don't wanna climb the ladder anymore. Hey there. Welcome back to the Career Flipper podcast. I'm Jenny Dempsey, your host of Furniture Flipper, and someone who's experienced that. What the heck am I doing with my life Spiral that comes with a career change?
This show actually started during one of those exact spirals. I got laid off from my job and customer experience tech world, and I applied to hundreds of other jobs and heard. Nothing [00:01:00] except rejections. So, um, I did what any logical person would do when they're really, really sad and depressed and feeling like they're not good enough anymore.
I saw some furniture on the side of the road that someone was throwing away, and I was like, I feel like that. So I scooped it up to go home and learned how to restore it, and was like, if this junkie table can have a second chance, maybe I can too. I didn't know exactly how. To restore furniture and I learned along the way.
And yeah, if you wanna check out my furniture flips, go to Instagram and TikTok and search San Diego Furniture Flipper. But anyways, in between scrubbing Grime and sanding wood, I just kept wondering like, how do other people get through these types of career changes and layoffs and rejections, and decide where they're gonna go next?
Like. H how do they get through the messy, this non-linear? Am I totally nuts [00:02:00] for making a change type stuff? Um, I started asking people, I slid into their LinkedIn dms, their Instagram dms, and I found their stories were inspiring. They're full of courage and self doubt and resilience and imposter syndrome and hope and good times and bad times.
And. It really proved that starting over doesn't have to be glamorous to be good. Now, every week on this podcast, I talk to regular everyday people who have totally flipped their careers and their lives. Some have jumped, some got pushed, but all of them figured out how to create something new, something more aligned, something more them, and new episodes drop every week.
So be sure to follow or subscribe the podcast on your favorite platform, and if something hits you right in the gut in a good way, I hope leave a review and tell me about it. Okay? [00:03:00] Let's talk about today's guest. You are about to meet Maria Quintanilla Beast in Los Angeles, California. She's a career flipper who proves that you can pivot your career even in the same industry.
She spent two decades working in tech and flipped her role from things like software engineer to product management, to solutions architecture and customer experience. She was even laid off in between as well, but eventually she had this awakening that she didn't wanna climb a corporate ladder anymore, but she still wanted to work in tech.
So she decided to make a big leap decision and walk away. By going the entrepreneurial route, marina now runs Mellon head.co in AI education and consulting company. In our chat together, we talk about all this inner work that has to happen before, during, and after taking a leap. Even if you don't wanna do the inner work, it's still gonna happen, and [00:04:00] there's this importance of building a financial safety net and then still taking a leap even when that net is dwindling.
And why? Being clear on who you are matters more than any job title you'll ever have. And she doesn't sugarcoat the hard parts. She shares the pressures that she felt the fear of making the wrong choice, like how do you know? And she also talks about what it's taken to rebuild on her own terms. If you've ever felt stuck or unsure, you are allowed to wanna even make a change within the same industry.
This episode will really speak to you. Let's get into it now. Marina, welcome to the Career Flipper. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to talk to you. Oh, this is awesome. Well, I'm just gonna let you tell everyone who you are, where you are in the world, and what you're doing now to give a little bit of context before we, uh, jump into the career flip.
Goodness. So [00:05:00] yeah, take it away. I. Yeah, I am, uh, marina Quintanilla. I am the CEO and founder of Mellon Head in AI education and services consulting firm. Um, I started my business about a year and a half ago, and I am here in Los Angeles, California. And yeah, just, um, enjoying the, the blue skies and nice weather while I, uh, help companies who aren't sort of.
Tech with technology at their core, uh, actually use generative ai. So. And everything's about AI right now. There's so many things and I, I honestly, I mean, I don't know facts and data, I know it's out there, but AI is kind of coming into a way where people are like, oh, is that gonna replace my job? Do I need to be thinking or flipping to something else?
So hearing it from you is gonna be really interesting of what brought you into this. Like where did you start your career, how did you flip and pivot and all the things I. Into [00:06:00] this new technology that is really changing the game. I started my career in tech. I studied computer science and worked as a software engineer early in my career.
So I've always been in tech. Um, but I've also been someone who's, um, very much about breath. You know, I, I've. Always had lots of friend groups. I was a cheerleader and a football player, right? I was in AP classes and IH hung out with skaters in high school. And then I went to college and did like three majors because I just, I always love all the things and I love learning.
Um, and so it's interesting to see how throughout my twenties and thirties that was reflected in my career. Where within a few years I knew I didn't wanna sit at a keyboard and be a programmer all day. Um, and so I moved into product management and I kind of zigzagged for the next 15 years, um, doing different things, always trying to get closer to the customer and get closer to roles where, um, I could affect the customer experience [00:07:00] and really drive value.
Um, and so when I, I left my last job in tech, I. Sort of kicking and screaming came into being an entrepreneur, and it was because what I really started thinking about what I wanted to do, it was actually helping democratize technology and getting to a point where I could, I. Help people and companies that are not technical at their core actually get value from the innovation that we see in technology.
Um, so once I got in tune with that internally, that, that was sort of my mission, if you will, in life, and the purpose that I wanted to really focus on, then it was figuring out how to do that. And it was completely different from anything I'd been doing for the last like, you know, 17 years. Wow. Yeah. And to get to that point, like, I think there's, there's an important piece that I'm hearing is like, you really went inward to figure out how you wanted to show up, what you wanted to [00:08:00] contribute with your career and also like really tap into the things like you are someone who loves variety.
Like I love it. Yeah. You were playing football and you were the cheerleader. I mean, not many people can say that, and it tells me a lot about. You and how you probably approach situations. But when you were making these pivots, I wanna like dive back a little bit because when you, for example, were like, okay, you've worked in tech, you've been in this industry, you know it.
But when you move from role to role, for example, programming to. Product Mar, like in the product sphere? I mean, how did you start getting into roles like that when you may not have had that experience? I think, yeah, a lot of people find themselves in situations where they're like, I wanna do this. It's in my same industry.
Absolutely. I wanna flip to this, but I have never done that. They're not gonna hire me. I don't need, yeah. I can't start on the ground floor. Yep. So what was that like for you? How did you kind of like glide your way into those? Yeah. Those things. Yeah, because I like [00:09:00] to kind of describe my career as I've been making a number of smaller pivots throughout, you know, my career, and this is now a much bigger one that I've done more recently.
But those smaller pivots I was able to do because I sort of, I. Uh, adjusted one axis, if you will, at a time. And so when I was an engineering manager, I was working on an internal team. We didn't have a product manager, and so I had to do a lot of the things that would traditionally fall under those responsibilities, like prioritizing, managing the backlog, thinking about the vision of the products we were developing.
So I was able to pitch myself that I'd already been doing those things even though I didn't have the formal title. And so. That, that was really the way I did it, is I, I spent time thinking about how I could frame the work I'd been doing, even though I didn't have a title and then I had to, you know, pitch myself.
Um, interestingly enough, I, I. It was also some luck, right? Because at that time I'd [00:10:00] been an engineer, I'd been working on data in this time, in the early two thousands, data was brand new. There weren't a lot of people that could speak and have that fluency with how to work with data. The, the term data engineering hadn't been coined yet.
Um, and so they were looking for people that could speak that. And so it was also a good, healthy blend of like, I had skills that were in demand. And then I was able to kind of sell and pitch myself, even though I didn't have some of the other skills I could sell myself, that I could pick those up. But I do wanna put that sort of disclaimer because depending on where people are trying to go, there might be headwinds, there might be tailwinds.
And so sometimes it's going to be hard and sometimes it's going to be easy and you have to, I think, um, take all that into account. Yeah, that is a really good point, and I kind of like how, you know, you were like, your resume, I would imagine, was so detailed to the point where you were really highlighting these skills as [00:11:00] opposed to it being so specific to the, the job itself.
Like you didn't have that particular title that you wanted to move into, but you did X, Y, and Z, and being very clear and detailed about that. It sounds like that's what really helped you. Did you work with someone to help you kind of figure that out? Because I feel like sometimes that may not come so naturally.
Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. How did that, how did you figure that part out? You know, I had a lot of people that had the job I wanted to have. I. That were in my, per my like network at work, you know, that I would, this is my twenties, so the people I was going out drinking with, for instance, after work. Yeah. Um, and so I was able to talk to them a lot about like what do they do, um, and get their input, for instance.
And so, you know, they were the ones who kind of were my informal coaches on here's how to position yourself. Um. They were also older than me. Um, and so they were, you know, five to 10 years older than me. And I think that really helped me too, because they also had been in the position of the hiring manager and so they could help give me that [00:12:00] perspective.
So I, I think things like that, whether it's, you know, more formal and just having someone review your resume or it's having discussions with people informally, there's lots of ways you can get input to help you, um, put together a plan. And you, you touched on something that shows up a lot in career flipper interviews where it's like you see someone who's doing something you wanna do and you, you reach you, you talk to them.
And I think that, like, that is just such a crucial component. I'm like, it doesn't matter if you like awkwardly slide into someone's dms or whatever it is. Like just ask like there's the, the least they could, they could just ignore you. Yeah. They could say no, but whatever you put yourself out there to ask.
And from your experience, it sounds like. That helped you. You saw people in hiring manager roles. You were picking their brains like you were using your network, your connections, and also having some cheers and great times. Like it sounds like it was good across the the board, but that's such a big piece.
I. What, what's interesting though is I [00:13:00] only ended up doing that for a few years. I think I spent four years in product management and then I was kind of like, I could see the career ladder and where it was going and I was like, oh, actually this isn't what I wanna spend the rest of my life doing. Yeah. Um, and that, that was really interesting for me because I realized that I.
To some degree you, you only dream based on what you know. Um, and so, because when I was an engineer, I was interacting with product managers and I hadn't know what product management was. I was like, oh, that looks like something I'd enjoy, that I'd be good at. I'm gonna go do that. Um, and I did it for a few years and I realized actually, you know.
I missed this or that. And, um, I realized that wasn't what I wanted. And then from there I pivoted into solutions architecture, which was an interesting pivot because even when I moved into it, I, I remember telling them when I was interviewing for this, I was like, I don't know what this is and what you want me to do, really, but um, these are the skills I have.
These are the strengths I have. [00:14:00] Um, and we just kind of, it was a startup and so it was like, no, we think you're gonna be great. Um, and they, you know, they were willing to kind of take a bet on me. But that then role was a pivot and it helped me get exposure to the sales process, to working directly with customers on the front lines, on onboarding and all these different things.
And I was still using a lot of my technical skills and product management prioritization for solutions architecture. Um, but that, that was like an interesting experience because then again, it opened me up to all different types of working in, um. Uh, a technology company and I had been with an ad tech, and so that, that was interesting to sort of widen the breadth of the different roles that I knew of and what I saw as sort of possible and where maybe my skills would be best used and where I would be, um, I guess happiest.
Yeah. I, the, the fact that like the focusing on the skills part is just so [00:15:00] important because they can be translated into other areas, like you're taking a role. Yeah. I mean, I don't even know what a solutions architect is. I hear that. I'm like, that sounds like very technical, but like I have no, I honestly have no idea.
And so, but hearing that the skills that you used, and I'm super curious, this is kind of a random question, but I love asking the random one. So how long did you do the engineering manager position? Like how long were you in that, was that a few years? A couple years? What was that? Yeah, so I, it's interesting.
I really spent three to four years sort of in each role. So I was three years as a IC software engineer, three years as a engineering manager, and then I spent four years in product management. And then I ended up spending, well, maybe it was four to five years though, working in kind of these sales engineering, support engineering solutions, architecture type roles.
Yeah, that's, and the reason that I call that out is because I feel like, I hear this often from people like us who do these variety things. There's, there's some type of internal timeframe. [00:16:00] There's like a, we we're like, okay. And we don't intentionally plan it, but we start to feel this like. I don't know. I, my me, sometimes it's just like I get really restless or a little, um, you know, maybe there's more anxiety coming up or I'm just, there's a feeling in my gut that I'm just like, this is, I just need to change.
But then I'm like, wait, why? What's going on? Oh, it's been like a few years. Okay. That's why I need to go do this. And so hearing you say that really resonated because I think a lot of people feel that pull. I don't know the answer. I don't know why, but I think we kind of have this internal timeframe of how much we can take before we realize that our call, you know, our calling, our purpose, whatever it is, can also be applied to something else.
Like there could be multiple of these in a life. And hearing you kind of bounce around this like three to five year mark. Yeah. It, it stands out well. Well, and I've had to ask myself a few times and I'm like, do I just wanna change? Because I don't wanna do the same thing forever. Yeah. Um, and I have [00:17:00] recognized that, yeah, you know what?
That, that shows up throughout my life, in my personal life and in my professional life. And so I, I have sought out roles where I can have a lot of new experiences where I can continue to learn. Where the role can sort of change over time. So most recently in corporate at least, um, I've been in these post-sales technical leadership roles where sometimes I'm thinking like an engineer and I'm working with the engineering team.
Sometimes I'm working with product teams. Sometimes I'm working with customer success or with sales or legal or compliance, and that. That's the, it's the first sort of group of roles where I actually was able to go, I think really for more than a few years because of the fact that I was able to sort of tap into so many different things that it, it could keep my, my brain engaged and I wasn't getting bored.
Right, right. Not getting bored. There was the variety there that kept you in it. Yeah. [00:18:00] And so, okay, you're in this product marketing role, it's been about four years, and then what do you do next? Well, so that was the one where after I got laid off, I had been ahead of product and. I knew I didn't want to make my career product management, and so I started talking to people in my network and was just sort of having informal conversations.
I was not actively looking too closely for a job because I actually had gotten an offer already. I. For a product management role. And that's when I kind of had to have that, um, moment with myself where I said, do I take this offer? But I felt kind of internally, like I was not excited. I was kinda like, uh, I don't know.
And I had to say, you know what? I'm gonna turn this down even though I have nothing else in the pipeline, nor do I even kind, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Um, it, it was a really hard decis decision to make. Um, but ultimately I decided, you know what? I'm gonna say no to this and I'm gonna take a few months.
To reflect a little more [00:19:00] internally about what I want. And then a couple months later, I was having a conversation with a former coworker. And I still didn't know what I wanted to do. And I, I flat out actually told him that and I said, look, this is what I've been doing since we worked together. 'cause it had probably been five years since we'd worked together.
Mm-hmm. So I talked about some of my strengths and what I've been working on, and I said, look, I don't, he, he, he said, actually, I don't have any product management roles. And I said, that's great. I don't wanna do product management. Yeah. And I was like. But I'll be honest, I'm not quite sure what I wanna do next, but I know I wanna, uh, I know these are my strengths.
I know I wanna do something else. And he was someone who had worked with me in a leadership role. Uh, he, he was higher than me, and so he knew my strengths. I. And he was able to say, we have this other role, and I think your strengths would be good on that. So I think that's where you have to look for people.
And within your network, don't just keep in touch with your peers and colleagues that maybe you're gossiping with or that you, [00:20:00] that you genuinely like and wanna have a drink with. But you also wanna keep in touch with the leaders, not just your former managers, but the people diagonal to you, because this was someone who was not even in my department or org.
But I had worked with his team and so he knew I had done good work when I worked with his team. Mm-hmm. Um, and he was the one who ended up introducing me to this other role that they were hiring for, that he felt my skills would be useful for. That was solutions architecture. And that was the one where I was like, I don't know what that means.
Um. But based on my background, everyone who was on the interview panel was like, you have the skills for this. Um, and it translates and yeah. Yeah. Ooh, gosh, I, so many things are popping in my mind here. I. First thing, you mentioned the word layoff, and so I wanna like tap into that for a second because I know a lot of people listening to the show are in similar [00:21:00] situations where they may have gotten laid off.
And one of the things that stood out to me about what you said, which resonates with me because I also had a similar thing where. You may have a job offer come up. And I know for me, I was like, even if I didn't wanna do it, I felt like I had to say yes because what else am I gonna do? Other people are like, oh, Jenny doesn't have anything coming in her bank account.
Like she's, she's picking up furniture on the side of the road and fixing up. She probably should take any job that she gets right now. And I went in with that mentality and then those things didn't work out. Like Yeah. Um, and so I just think like. I knew intuitively it was not right, but I didn't feel like I had a choice.
Hearing what you said, I love this because this is so important because sometimes we can tap into that awareness or intuition or whatever it is that it's like, okay, this is not the right fit for me, and it's okay to say no even if I have nothing else lined up because. There's something else out there [00:22:00] and it sounds like you kind of maybe had that feeling, so I was wondering if you could talk a little bit more like how do you know when it's okay to say no after a layoff when you're dealing with the grief of the layoff?
Obviously yeah. There's a lot of emotions that affect you personally, professionally, but like when you got nothing else. Yeah. How do you know when it's okay to say no to an opportunity because something else better might be ahead? Yeah. Well, I'm gonna, I think there's two things. First I wanna say that, um, I am a planner and for all scenarios, yes.
You know, I've got my earthquake kit at home for when there's the first quake. Um, in one of my layoffs most recently, like I planned for, because the tech scene has been very difficult. I'm like, if we need to, we can move in with my parents and rent the house. Like, I'm always planning, but, so when I've had jobs.
What that meant is I've always been very intentional about [00:23:00] keeping a six month savings account, um, because I don't want to be forced into the wrong job because I know once you have a job, you try, kind of need to keep it for a year or two. So I will say that is a part of it for me is that I have an intentionally.
Saved so that I'm not forced into a decision out of financial necessity. Mm-hmm. I know not everyone's there, um, at the moment. So I, I'll recognize that, but that's at least been it for me. Like that's part of what gave me that flexibility. Um, but the second piece is the mindset, and I think having an abundance mindset, not a scarcity mindset, and it's having confidence that.
I have skills that my skills are marketable, um, and that they are valued in the market. And I think that that helped me a lot. Um, I've been laid off three times. I've myself been a part of 12 layoffs that I've as a manager had to orchestrate. Oh, sure. Um, and so. For me, my 20 years in tech layoffs [00:24:00] has just been, it's been a natural part of it, and I've always seen the tech cycle of boom and hiring heavily, almost really often over hiring and then cutting back.
And I think because of my exposure to that cycle as a a director and as a manager, I've always been like, this can be my reality. Even when I haven't been laid off, my husband's been laid off, so. That savings account has always been a part of our strategy so that we're not forced into accepting jobs we don't want.
Yeah, that's very smart. It's very much this calculated risk in a way where you are taking that ownership of like, Hey, this is what we need no matter what, and then it gives you the freedom and flexibility to make choices that are more aligned with. Who you are and to give things a try. And I think that that is so important.
And then also just believing in yourself, believing in your skills, knowing that, sure, maybe these companies didn't want you, but. [00:25:00] You are still a valid, wonderful human with great skills Yeah. And great experiences that you can now put towards roles you didn't even know existed, like solutions architects.
But it, it's not an easy thing to do. And most recently, like when when I walked away that first time, the market was in my favor. I was an asset. Right. Yeah. I had been headhunted in the past, in my career. I think I had. Uh, things going in my favor. So I think for me to have the mindset of abundance was a little bit easier.
It was still very scary. Mm-hmm. Uh, because I didn't have anything in the pipeline. I didn't even know what I wanted. But most recently it was much harder to say no when I had an offer coming in because I. Right at that point, this was, um, early 2024. You know, there's like hundreds of applicants competing for jobs.
So many people have been out of work in the tech industry. And when I walked away from that one, that was much harder because I wasn't getting phone calls. [00:26:00] Um, you know, even people, my network, if they were hiring, they were being bombarded. So, um. It's not, it's definitely not always easy. Yeah, no, and I hear that completely.
I, 18 years in the tech startup world, customer experience. And honestly it was the same. I thought when I got laid off, I was kinda like, eh, you know, I too was headhunting in the past. I had, um, you know, a great network of people. Most of my jobs throughout my career were all referrals. Like I just had no like, concern and then.
403 job rejections later. I was like, what in the F? Like, what's going on? I was like, yeah. I was like, suddenly I am not a valuable asset anymore. And it was like a shift in my identity. I had to the LA like, and it took me two years to get something else. In the meantime, leaning into my entrepreneur entrepreneurial spirit, which I wanna pick your brain on that as well.
Yeah. But also like. That ability to get resourceful, figure it out, still gotta pay the bills, but do [00:27:00] things that really light me up. And that led to this podcast. It led to furniture. And then two years later, the 404th job I applied for was a yes. And it was definitely a referral. And it just kind of was like, what a journey.
But the thing is, is that I did not believe in myself. Mm-hmm. I did not. I have very high. I mean, self-worth wise, yes, I believe I'm a great person, but I just thought like, if I can't get a job, who am I? I thought work was all I was good at. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's how I defined my purpose. And so without that, I feel so great, and this sounds nuts, but to be having $0 coming in my bank account.
Pulling furniture out of the trash, fixing it up and selling it. So I have cash, um, has taught me that yes, I am resourceful and my skills are still here, and I don't necessarily need a, you know, fancy corporate title to prove my worth to the world. That there are other ways I can do [00:28:00] that. And I just had to learn that lesson that way and, whew.
Yeah. Rough. Yeah, I was on the opposite end where I never once questioned my skills and my value. It was almost like. And that for, that I'm grateful for. I had actually, I had a mental breakdown a year and a half prior to getting laid off where, uh, I had been shaming myself for not doing the work I needed to get my VP title because I could see the work I needed to do.
I knew I knew what I needed to do and I couldn't do it because it would've required me to sacrifice more than I was willing to sacrifice in my personal life. Yeah. Um, and so I had to let go A lot of. Certain parts of my identity and I had to reevaluate. I call myself a recovering overachiever for this reason.
I love it because I, I got to a point where I realized actually this is not good for my health. It's not good for my relationships. And so, okay. Real quick, can we talk about a product that is helping to [00:29:00] keep the podcast going? Okay, good. So if you got any wood furniture at home. It's looking, let's say a little rough around the edges.
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Once again, that's arlington woodworks.com and use Code Flipper at checkout for 10% off. Okay, let's get back to the show. For me, I, I, I had realized I am only now going to achieve within the boundaries and guardrails of what I'm looking for. And so when I finally got laid off, it was, no, I know a lot of the value I bring, but wow, this market is such that I.
There's a lot of other people that have these same skills, which I told you with the data stuff, you know, early on. Um, that, that was my edge a lot of times is I am technical and I can speak the [00:31:00] business and I can speak to customers, and that trifecta is really unique. And then in this market, I learned.
Oh no. There's a lot of other people that can do that too. Yeah, and so I had to say, okay, I had to almost approach my personal career like a business where I said, well then what? What can I do that is competitive? Or how can I position myself? And, and really I think figure out like, what do I wanna do and where can I find an intersection with what I care about and what I wanna do with my skills and with where there is market demand.
Because what I had previously found to be unique about me, uh, and in demand was in fact in the current market, not unique. Right? And this kind of reevaluation of all of that. Tied to all of the emotional, mental Yeah. The, the, these things that are tied. Like it's a whole journey. It's a whole mess of a thing.
Oh, to figure out. Yeah. It, it took a year. It took a year. And in that end of the 12 months [00:32:00] after I was laid off most recently, um. I mean, I had a whole breakdown with tears and a big fight with my husband and, you know, everything blew up. Yeah. Um, so it's, it's not easy. And it's not a straight line. No, it is very squiggly and all over the place.
And like, it's a, it's like a, a, it's. A legit rollercoaster. Yeah. I mean it's absolutely fun at times, but also terrifying. Yeah. At sometimes. And um, it is just something that if we talk about more, maybe, I don't know, it's not gonna help make it any easier, but I think it's just kind of normalizes it. Like yeah, it's part of this.
You can still do these things. You don't have to stay stuck. Yeah. But just know that it's probably gonna be this way. But I also feel like sometimes if you stay put. You are still gonna run into this, so you're still gonna find things are gonna come up and challenge you and Yeah, either way, just, but now I wanna talk about the entrepreneurial part because you then left.
[00:33:00] And you're starting your own thing. So how did, how did all of that happen? Where did that come from? Yeah, so in my first year being laid off, it was sort of my season of trying new things of like, like you mentioned, right? Being resourceful. Um, I tried consulting and I felt like, I think I tried it with kind of one foot in and one foot out, if you will.
Mm-hmm. And I didn't make a lot of progress, but it was, it was also about sort of gathering data, if you will, and seeing, um, to my point earlier about looking for signals from the market for where there was value in need. Um, and I thought, you know, for me it was like helping customers with technical onboarding, um, and scaling their customer onboarding.
I didn't get a single lead for that, and so then I went back to looking for a job, um, full time in corporate. And I started to realize then, as I was interviewing, it was like I could feel it in my chest that I was like, ah, you know [00:34:00] what? I just, I don't really wanna go back to corporate America. And it was very strange for me because I had never wanted to be an entrepreneur that I was never one of those people.
I had always aspired to climb the corporate ladder to get to the C-suite. I'd always been very ambitious in that way. Um, and so this was a very new feeling to me. Um mm-hmm. And I, I had to, then again, like a few years back, I had to start digging a little bit, getting more self-awareness then about, well, if that's not what I'm doing, what am I doing and what value do they bring?
And that's where then my identity started to fall apart, if you will. And I mean, I did recognize I needed to shift my identity, but that, that was probably the hardest part. 'cause if I'm not a, um, you know, director of. Customer solutions engineering, what am I if I'm not helping, you know? Mm-hmm. SaaS companies with like these customer integrations, these very hairy [00:35:00] sort of technical things, but customer facing, like, what am I doing?
Um, and I think that that was the first piece was letting go of that identity and being willing to say, I don't know. Mm. And then to start kind of doing the journaling and the mindset work and just, you know, that digging to figure out what I would do next. Um, and ultimately it led to me first deciding on a mission and then realizing it was going to be consulting again.
But this time I was doing it with both feet in, and it was completely different. It was focused on education. And so for me it was pivoting to instructional design and to, um, facilitation. And these were things like I'd never been trained in. And so it's almost the opposite of everything we've talked about where I didn't necessarily have those hard skills, I should say, on how to do some of those things.
I'd always trained and focused on education and upskilling as a manager in my like 15 plus years as a people manager. But I'd never [00:36:00] been a part of learning development, you know, within an organization or sort of done those things, na, naturally. So it was, uh, that was a much bigger leap and a bigger flip.
Yeah. That's huge. Oh, absolutely. I mean, you are. You're changing so many elements of your life, personally, professionally, um, digging into things you're just like, yeah, I've never done this. Um, but going in a direction you never saw yourself. Going. Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious, marina, did you work with a coach or did you read books or listen, like how did you figure out like the importance of writing a mission?
How did you even write that? How did you know what to journal about? Like, did you work with someone during that time, or how, what resources did you use that were really helpful? Not at the moment, but I have in the past, so I spent three years with an executive coach years ago when I was very focused on getting to the VP level.
Yeah. And so I had some of the frameworks available to me that I had used when I worked with her. And I, I pulled those back. I went [00:37:00] back to my Google Drive search for them because I remembered how helpful they had been. Yeah. And I found those. So I always, I highly recommend people working with coaches.
Yeah. Um, I had just prior, like in the. Period where everything was falling apart. I had been working with an executive, um, presence coach more specifically on my speaking and how I show up, because at that point I was focused on. My first iteration with consulting as well as how I talked to my network about what I'm looking for.
Yeah. Uh, and if anything, that is what probably accelerated my, like spiral because it forced me to confront things. Right. And, and she would be pushing me to talk about certain things or things like that. That really helped me confront if you have to, confront if you will, those sort of hard truths. Yeah.
That can get. Messy. What do you mind sharing? What's like one of the hard truths that you, that you learned the most from sharing? I. Well, so, and I don't know [00:38:00] if hard truth is the right word then, but I think for me, when I, when I sort of do the replay in my head, the question that caused my downfall was yes.
You know, trying to talk to people about the value I bring. What value can you bring in an organization? Mm-hmm. Um, which, wow, how capitalist does that sound? But I think most of my career, it was very easy for me to talk about this is what I do to people in my network. Because there are people all around you that wanna help you.
Yeah. But they need to know what your strengths are, um, so that they can pull you into things at the right time. Mm-hmm. Um, and for whatever reason it was like. I couldn't talk and I couldn't, like, the words weren't coming. And it was fascinating to me because I could almost as a bystander, see myself and I'm like, why can't you articulate this?
And I knew how it wasn't from a place of, um, uh, what is it when you don't believe in yourself? Um, [00:39:00] imposters. It was not from a place of imposter syndrome. It was. Very odd to me to see that. I knew I had value and I knew I had skills, and I had them written in a notion document or Google Docs and in my resume, but for whatever reason, I couldn't.
Articulate them. And so she was trying to work with me on putting together my pitch. And I had 10 variations of it, but none of them felt right. And it was like in a conversation, I could never authentically communicate them. It was like my energy was like mismatched with the words I had on paper. Mm. And that's why I think a lot of my interviews, it was like I was saying things, but my energy wasn't in partnership with them.
Yeah. And so I wouldn't move farther in the interview. Um. And I ended up at some point shaming myself again because I'm like, marina, you're 11, 12 months into being laid off and you can't even tell your friends what it is you do and what value you bring. And that's when I spiraled and I had to like figure out like.
Why [00:40:00] that was and what the hard truth was for me was you don't wanna go back into corporate. You don't wanna work at a tech company. That was, for me, the hard truth that I had to uncover was actually, you don't wanna climb the ladder anymore. And I was like, well, if that's not what I'm doing, what am I doing?
And I'd been the breadwinner in my family. Wow. It's always been like the one bringing home the bacon. And that is something I took pride in, is being the one that was flying across the country and, you know, all the, all the things that come with being that. Um, yeah. So that was the thing I had to then really unpeel in terms of identity.
Yeah. Ooh, gosh. I mean, that is, uh, crunchy. That's just like one of these things that it's like. I mean, hearing you share that story, that spiral sounds like one of the best and most necessary things that happened to you at this point. Like you were at the point where it was the right moment for that spiral to happen for you to have these, uh, this, I mean, kind of awakening [00:41:00] in a way, like to bring you to this next, uh, chapter in, you know, in your career.
And it's just like, but to have to face that when you're in it is just so like. I, it's just that you carrying bricks on your shoulders, you're just constantly like, oh my gosh, every effort feels so hard. Because yeah, when you have that realization that everything in your career had been, you know, about climbing the ladder had been about, you know, how this defined, you know, whatever in your skills and all these things that made you, you and how you defined yourself to suddenly unravel that and be like, yeah, I don't, I don't want to go back to corporate.
I don't want to climb the ladder. Then what does that mean? I think the hard, the other thing that was interesting to me was it was not just admitting myself that I didn't want that anymore, but it was admitting to myself that I wasn't willing to sort of fake it and live in that, like work in that I, the code switching piece of mm-hmm.
Working in corporate. Mm-hmm. I was just no longer willing to [00:42:00] change who I was. Um. And it was interesting because it isn't a problem for my husband, it's not a problem for many people. They just is like, it's almost like the ability to compartmentalize. Um, and for whatever reason, I just realized I, I don't wanna compartmentalize anymore.
Wow. That's huge. That's a huge realization. And so you have this, you know, self-awareness now, and you then. Start doing your next thing. And so it sounds like you had two feet into this consulting. Yeah. Yeah. And then what happened next? I mean once I sort of, that veil lifted and I went both feet in, it was like the stars aligned.
It was magical and it was, it's fascinating to look back and just see how things fell into place and the customers came like just like a year before I sent out an email to people in my network. Uh, including by the way, people I did not work with, I also included people. I went to the gym with neighbors.
Like, I think that's [00:43:00] important for people if you're starting something new. Yeah. Don't just limit yourself to people you know you've worked with. Mm-hmm. But I told people, this is what I've been doing. I had started workshops for local moms to teach them how to use generative AI chat, GPT and the like. Um, but I wanted to move into bigger deals and to be doing education at the enterprise level.
I wanted to build. Custom solutions for people using generative ai. And so I told people what I've been up to. I said, I'm looking for a Guinea pig. And sure enough, I ended up getting this amazing referral closed, a six figure deal within 27 days. Woo. Which was just the the greatest thing to be able to see.
You can do this. And it was like the world wanted me to see and send me a message. This is possible you can make. A full-time job, you can build a business from scratch. You can do this. Yeah. Wow. That's incredible validation that you are on the right path. Exactly. After everything you had been through [00:44:00] having, you know, those really low points where you're just like, yeah, I, I don't know.
And moving into this new direction where. It's kind of just like it showed up, handed you on a silver platter in a way where obviously lots and lots of work, but there is it just like it found you at the right time when you were fully open and able to accept it. Yeah. And do and do it like it was the right time.
Yeah. So you are, you have this opportunity, it shows up, you take it, and then what's the next, what's the next step here? I mean, so now, you know, the, in the year since it's really been about building out a brand new business, and so it's figuring out like what services I'm offering. I've already done two pivots.
Um, you know, I'm still, my mission is the same, but it's am I positioning myself for customer experience, which is what I started with because my background has been very much in mm-hmm. Um, bringing technical [00:45:00] solutions to customers so that I can speak a lot to that function in a business. I ended up finding that wasn't necessarily working and I wasn't getting a lot of leads that way.
Um, but I was getting leads working internally with it, with HR that wanna bring, you know, AI into their organizations and they don't necessarily, they're not subject matter experts. So that's now what I'm focusing on. Um, custom development was my very first deal. It was a huge deal, but I, I found it didn't help me get close enough to the mission I wanna focus on, and I was almost trying to do too many services and be like an all a one-stop shop for these services.
And I think for a small consultancy, it, it, it just alluded things a little too much. Mm-hmm. So now I'm doubling down on education. And focusing really exclusively on that. Um, so yeah, the, the last year has been almost trying different things, figuring out messaging, where am I getting leads, what do I hear from potential clients so that though I can, you know, adjust how [00:46:00] I grow my business and where I focus my services and figuring out when I hopefully start to bring in more people.
Yes, I love that. And your journey is just. I don't know. It really resonates because I think a lot of people feel they don't wanna flip to something that's completely outside of the industry. They wanna just change, you know, within the industry or build their own thing within something that they've been working in.
And you are the proof that it is possible and that you can work in tech and you can have multiple different pivots along the way. Oh yeah. Including starting your own thing. And I. I have learned a lot about you and your story and the ways that you have made these decisions today, and I just am curious, is there any last piece of advice to someone who might be sitting at their desk right now at their corporate job that is just like, ugh.
I wish I could do that, but I'm scared or I, whatever it is. Do you have any last pieces of advice for someone [00:47:00] to help them make these decisions for themselves? I think doing the inner work is, is important to prioritize. I think I. Once you start down that path, you'll very quickly realize if corporate isn't what you wanna do, that you will need to reconcile those two things and it'll force you to make that jump because you just, you'll feel like you're doing something you're not supposed to do.
Um, depending on your personality, like. For some people that might mean that they're putting together a plan, they're saving and then they pick a date. I've seen many people, I know that that's what they did. They saved and they planned almost like the squirrels, right? Um, and then they had their date. And you respect that date with yourself.
'cause that's a commitment you're making to bet on yourself. Um, for other people, the path looks a little bit different. Maybe like me, it's um. Yeah, but the, and the funny part actually is that moment when I started my business was actually in some ways the scariest because I had been unemployed for a year, and in that year we had fully drained that savings [00:48:00] account.
Um, so the point at which. I decided to start my business was when we actually no longer had the safety net. Oh. And so in some ways that's where, you know, you really do have to go both feet in and maybe that, that's the other step of my advice is go with it both feet in, um, you know, thing. Things will line up if you believe in yourself and if you're going for it.
But if you're just towing the water mm-hmm. You're probably not gonna get very far. Yeah. Yeah. True that, true that your proof that going two feet in was absolutely worth it and you didn't have the net, you're like, oh, A little bit of delusion. Yeah. A little bit of delusion. Yeah. That can help. I, I know that that definitely helps, uh, to just sometimes, all right, here we are.
This is what we're doing. Yeah. And what that meant tactically was I wasn't applying to jobs anymore. I wasn't looking at the job openings. If someone reached out to me about a job or something they thought I would be good for, I said, no thank you. Because my mindset, all of my [00:49:00] mental energy, everything was a hundred percent focused on this is what I'm doing and I'm gonna do this for, I don't know, two years or something like that.
Yeah. And I at least knew the amount of money I needed to like. Survive, like survival mode was actually a very small amount of revenue that I could bring in and we would be fine, or we could rack up credit card debt for a few years. So that I think helped me like, like I had my plan, right? Yeah. The plan, absolutely.
The planner does not ever not have a plan. Like, because as was a planner myself, I feel that as well, but. Marina, thank you so much for sharing your journey and putting up with all my questions. How can people find you and connect with you and slide into your dms and ask you questions about what they may be navigating?
Where can they connect with you? I. Yeah, I think, um, professionally, like LinkedIn is the best place I am. I'm fairly active on LinkedIn, so find me there. You can also go to my website, mellon head.co. [00:50:00] That's with two Ls, like Carnegie Mellon, my alma mater. Shout out to Carnegie Mellon. Um, so Mellon head.co also has my contact info and any events that, you know, speaking at things like that.
Amazing. Thank you so much, marina. I appreciate you being here. Thanks, Jenny. Have a great day. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the Career Flipper podcast. You can connect with Marina using the links in the show notes. And hey, if you like this episode, please subscribe, rate, and. Leave a review. It helps other career flippers find the show.
And let's be real. Figuring out this career stuff is way easier when you know you're not the only one. Winging it. If you have your own career, flip story to share, hop over to the career flipper.com and drop it in the form. I would love to hear it. And maybe you can be on a future episode with me. If you ever want someone to talk about this stuff for an event, or you just wanna do a team building chat about career changes or one-on-one [00:51:00] coaching, I do that and I would love to talk with you more.
Reach out to me. Hello, at the career flipper.com. On a personal note, what I love most about this podcast is just knowing that the chance that someone out there might hear these stories and think, okay, maybe I can take that first step, maybe I can. It's scary, but it's also where everything begins. It's messy, but it's necessary.
So keep going, my friend. What's the best that could [00:52:00] [00:53:00] happen?