From software engineer to chocolate maker and founder of San Diego Chocolate Co., meet Case Sandberg
What happens when a software engineer follows a sweet little spark of curiosity all the way to the farmer’s market? In this episode, host Jenny Dempsey chats with Case Sandberg, founder of San Diego Chocolate Co., about what it really looks like to leave a stable tech job and step into the (often melty) world of handcrafted chocolate.
We talk about perfectionism, pivoting with purpose, building something from scratch, and why your next chapter doesn’t need a polished plan — just a little momentum and maybe a glass of chocolate milk.
Whether you're dreaming of leaving tech, craving a more hands-on life, or just want to feel seen in the mess of figuring it all out — this one’s for you.
In this episode, we talk about:
Takeaway quote
“I don’t want to let my perfectionism get in the way of bringing joy to people.”
Connect with Case and San Diego Chocolate Co
Case 00:00:00 But yeah, at the end of the day, I also care that like, I'm able to bring joy to people. And so like, I don't want to let my perfectionism get in the way of me bringing joy to people. And so like, if I, if I were to just wait and never, never do it, then that, you know, I'll never be able to give give that to people. Right?
Jenny 00:00:20 Welcome to the Career Flipper podcast. I'm your host and fellow career flipper, Jenny Dempsey. This show is created out of one of those what the heck am I doing now? Moments that really hit me right in the gut. I got laid off from my customer experience job in tech and two years plus 400 job applications later. All I kept hearing was, yeah, thanks, but no thanks if I heard anything at all because the application ghosting was real. But anyways. So I got scrappy. A friend gave me one of her old junky beat up tables that she just had sitting in a basement.
Jenny 00:00:56 She had found it in the alley years ago and honestly, I was in such a low place that I saw a spark of potential in that junkie table. So I taught myself to use a sander in between applying for jobs, and I started flipping furniture in my garage to give these pieces a second chance and to make a little extra cash. But going from a tech job to being covered in paint and sawdust felt a little wacky. Like I dropped into a totally different world. And if you want to see my flip attempts and occasional fails, check out San Diego Furniture Flipper on Instagram and TikTok. But while I was figuring this all out, I kept asking myself, gosh, how do other people do this? How do they flip their careers when everything feels messy and sticky and uncertain? So I just started to talk to people. I'd slide into their DMs and ask them, hey, how'd you do this? And the Career Flipper podcast was made because those stories and conversations that I was hearing from people were so helpful and validating to me that I just felt the need to share him, because maybe it could help someone else.
Jenny 00:02:05 You know, asking those questions and learning about the messy middle and really talking to all of these real people who took the leap, whether they wanted to or because they had to. Their stories. It's like messy. It's it's so raw and full of hope and the kind of hope that you might need right now. If you're thinking about switching gears, but really have no clue where to start and might not believe in yourself. But if you've ever felt that way, you know that itch to really, like, shake things up. But but you don't know what that looks like. Just know you're not alone and you are exactly where you need to be. Now, in this episode today, you'll meet Case Sandberg. I actually ran into him in the sweetest way. Literally. one day in January 2025, I was wandering through San Diego's North Park Farmer's Market with my pup when I spotted this adorable little chocolate stand. It was new. I hadn't seen it before. I'm a huge dark chocolate fan and I of course had to stop.
Jenny 00:03:11 There were samples. I had to stop. And in true classic Jenny style, because this is just who I am. While sipping the chocolate milk I just bought from, I blurted out, okay, so how did you get into this chocolate making thing? It turns out. Case was a software engineer. Then on a whim, after taking a chocolate making class just for fun. Like no big plan, no career pivot in mind, but that little taste of curiosity. After learning about how to make the chocolate, it grew into something way bigger. He left the tech world behind and now runs San Diego Chocolate Co, handcrafting small batch chocolate and his own rich, creamy chocolate milk that's seriously worth every sip. On this episode, we dig into what it's really like to follow that curiosity, take some risks, calculated risks and otherwise, and build something from scratch, even when it's messy and kind of outside your comfort zone when you don't know what you're doing. We chat about the gooey middle stuff, messy logistics, food business hurdles, perfectionism, burnout, and the sweet, sweet rewards of creating something that genuinely lights you up and brings joy to others.
Jenny 00:04:33 And if there's one thing that Casey's story proves, it's that your next chapter might not come with a perfect plan. It might not be at the perfect time. Sometimes it just starts with one class that you think you might be interested in, one chocolate craving, or a simple Why not now? Let's get into the episode and the conversation with case. So there was this one day I was at the North Park Farmer's Market with my dog, Dwight, and we were walking through, and it's so fun to walk through the farmer's market. There's always fun vendors, good food samples. And this one particular afternoon, I stopped by a booth because it had the word chocolate on it and I was like, I am being called to. I am being beckoned. I had to stop by and not only were there chocolate samples, there was chocolate milk and chocolate oat milk. And I was like, count me in. And then I remember chatting with you. I was like, gosh, how do you even get started doing something like this? And you were like, it's my first day.
Jenny 00:05:42 I just I just quit my job and now I'm doing this. And I was like, wait a second, are you kidding me? This could not be more delicious and serendipitous. All in one case. Welcome to the career flipper. I was just, like, the best thing. Meeting you on the first day that you were at the farmers market.
Case 00:06:01 Thanks, Jenny. Yeah. I feel like it's incredible serendipity that, like, you were one of the first people to actually, like, give me a shot as, like, I'm like, you're trying to be vulnerable. Doing. Literally. I put up the tent for the first time that day. Like, it was like, all kind of finally coming together. And you were one of the first people to be like, yeah, I'll stop by and try this. Like, I don't know anything about you, but, like, I'll, I'm willing to give you a shot. So thank you for that.
Speaker 3 00:06:24 Oh my gosh.
Jenny 00:06:25 It's an honor.
Jenny 00:06:26 I love how things like that happen. But tell everybody who you are and like what exactly it is that you do. What was that booth for? What are you doing on the. You know. What are you doing? Tell everyone who you are where you are right now.
Case 00:06:40 Yeah. Right on. So my name is Kay Sandberg. So I'm based out of North Park in San Diego. I'm here at my home. and I'm a chocolate maker. So I started a chocolate company. I'm the kind of founder and head chocolate maker. Right now, the the rolls are always kind of constantly shifting in small businesses but wearing many, many hats. and I recently, at the beginning of the year, started a farmers market booth as kind of a V1 for testing out this model for running a chocolate company. And so, currently right now I'm doing, farmer's markets, a couple of them around San Diego, San Diego County. I'm selling both like, chocolate bars and then also chocolate milk. Kind of that nostalgic drink that everybody remembers as a kid, but a slightly better, healthier version of that.
Case 00:07:25 So.
Speaker 3 00:07:26 Yeah.
Jenny 00:07:27 And I can vouch personally for how delicious and creamy and like, yeah, the nostalgia is there. But I was like, ooh, I don't necessarily feel so gross after drinking this.
Speaker 3 00:07:38 Like.
Jenny 00:07:41 I love it, but you didn't start out this way. Okay. So like, this is this isn't something you've been doing for years and years. It's very clearly earlier this year, you just kicked it off. So. How did how did this happen? How did you flip your career into the world of chocolate?
Case 00:07:59 Yeah, it's kind of interesting. So I kind of started my traditional kind of background before doing chocolate was as a software engineer. So I lived in the San Francisco Bay area. I worked for a lot of big tech companies, small tech companies, you the big tech companies you've probably heard of, the small tech companies you haven't heard of. And some of them laughed and some of them got bought by other companies. And so I kind of spent about 12 or 15 years in the Bay area working like pretty much as a software engineer, sitting at a computer all day, writing code, talking to customers and that kind of stuff.
Case 00:08:35 And it was very interesting. I think I actually really like software engineering, and I kind of miss aspects of it. And so whenever I get some free time, I like to like to still do some fun stuff on my own. but I was really, I don't know. I was really hungry to do my own thing and kind of in my own way, it's, It's kind of interesting being a part of, this kind of, current big tech movement over the past decade or so. and I think it's fascinating because there's, there's so many things that are happening there all of the time. It's it's very fast paced. A lot of it is like scale at all costs, raise all of this money, fire people, fire people. It's like it's just like nonstop craziness. and so eventually I was like, man, it would be so nice to, like, kind of slow down a bit and like, do things a bit more deliberately. and I was like, chocolate might be a way that I can, you know, try out these, like, wacky ideas I have of maybe how a company can operate.
Case 00:09:35 Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:09:37 Yeah.
Jenny 00:09:38 So I also I come from the startup tech world, so I, I'm in the little companies that no one knows about. So I feel that like it's the many hats. It is busy, you're working extra hours and there's very little budget, and there's sometimes very little salary attached to that for the smaller startups. But like everyone is so purpose driven at that stage that it just gets crazy. And then in the big tech startups, I can't even imagine how that's like amplified. but how did you even get into chocolate? Was this something that you liked? Like where did your interest start with even thinking that that was an option for for a potential career path?
Case 00:10:16 Yeah, it's it's so funny because I never even honestly and I still don't even know if I still consider it a career path right now, but it's something that's very fun to do. Yeah. so when I was living in San Francisco, I used to live in a neighborhood called The Mission, and there is a small chocolate company there, which I would say they're no longer small.
Case 00:10:35 I think they would consider themselves small, but I don't think they're very small anymore called dandelion chocolate. And they were actually started by former software engineers who had exited a large company and then got into chocolate, you know, a decade or a decade and a half ago. and so they just had this wonderful cafe and now factory in downtown San Francisco, making and manufacturing chocolate, at, like, you know, a really high quality, large, you know, great craftsmanship, and transparency and things like that. and so it literally was my coffee shop. So, like, I would hang out there all of the time. It kind of like, it's funny, I think, Third Spaces is kind of becoming a bit of a buzzword thing today, but it was one of the it was one of the places. It's like I would be home working or be at the office working, and I would go there for coffee or a pastry or get a gift for somebody for their birthday or the holidays. and so it just came to, it was the place that I hung out.
Case 00:11:33 It was like one of the few places where I was there daily or, you know, multiple times a week. but it still nothing had clicked at that point. It was just like, I really like what these people are doing. I like the environment they're creating. I like the product that they're creating. There's a lot of craftsmanship. Like, I care quite a lot about craftsmanship. And so, it was just kind of like the osmosis of being around all of that. Like, I could feel that I connected with what they were trying to do. Yeah. and so one day they decided to start offering chocolate making classes. And so I took a chocolate making class with them. I just thought it'd be a fun, you know, little thing to do. And then, again, didn't think anything of it. I was like, oh, this is interesting. and went on with my, you know, went on with my life. And then one Christmas, a few years after that, my partner got me a chocolate making kit from them and essentially had, like, all of the basic level of things, to, like, you know, a couple beans to start out with a couple bags of beans, some sugar.
Case 00:12:33 The basic, basic machine, and kind of a step by step guide of how to make your own chocolate at home. and it's funny because I think he had thought this was just going to be like, oh, you know, Casey will do this for 1 or 2 weekends, and it'll just be a fun, you know, it's a little pricey of a Christmas gift, but like, it'll be a good craft for a couple of weekends and then it'll get put in the closet. Never seen again. and I just, I started doing it, and I was hooked. I was like, this is, like, so incredibly fun. It kind of like, checks so many boxes for me in terms of, like, the craftsmanship, like the creativity. and it's just so fun. I'm, I'm very, like, community and people oriented. And there is something so fun about giving away chocolate to people. It's like I, you know, that's I essentially I've been making chocolate for like 7 or 8 years now, and up until literally January of this year, I was only making chocolate to give away to people and animals, to be honest.
Case 00:13:31 But yeah, there's there's just something about that, like connecting with people by, like, meeting a new neighbor and being like, hey, here's some chocolate that I made. And they're like, wait, you made you made this chocolate? Like, thank you so much. You know, it's like, That's like one of the unique aspects about it, I think, is that so many, chocolate kind of traverses so many different boundaries that, like, pretty much not everybody, but pretty much everybody loves it or can appreciate chocolate. So.
Jenny 00:14:00 Wow. So the way that this like, happened, I mean, it just literally came out of pure curiosity and looking for something fun to do in a place that and I loved what you called it was the third, the third place of like, now you have your your home, you have your work, and then here's this other place. And not only that, like, you loved the brand so much and everything they stood for and what they were going for, and how comfortable you felt in that space that you were willing to support them with.
Jenny 00:14:29 You know, like all your gifts were from there and this and that. Now taking a course and learning and enriching your own life. And how I was cracking up, like did your part, did he think like, wait, this isn't staying on the cabinet, like, hold on or like, what's going on?
Speaker 4 00:14:45 Yeah, there was no exactly. There was no.
Case 00:14:48 Thought of the long term conundrum of running a chocolate factory out of your house.
Speaker 4 00:14:54 Which is hilarious. So.
Jenny 00:14:56 Oh my gosh. So, okay, so you're doing this and you're giving these amazing gifts. Lucky neighbors, and friends and family. And you're making this and delicious treat that you can just grab on your own. You know what's in it. It's, you know, looks how you want it to look, but then, like, okay, you're also still working your software engineer job and you're doing that on the daily. Okay. So when did when did this happen where you're like, wait, I'm going to leave this to do this.
Jenny 00:15:25 Like, how did it go from this kind of community gifting experience to more of like something on a bigger scale?
Case 00:15:34 Yeah, it's kind of interesting. I kind of just like follow my curiosity. So I feel like over the past For years or so. I actually just like got super into chocolate. And so I like I started learning as much as I could. So I started going to, there's a couple of chocolate conferences around the world. And so I started going to conferences to like, learn from makers and learn from producers. And I took a course on how freight logistics and growing logistics work for chocolate. And so I was like, I just like, started like I'm like, I'm just going to be curious about this. And like when I want to know something, I'm either going to go learn about it online or find somebody or a place where I can go and learn about it. and so I kind of went on this whole trip of like, kind of learning every piece of the chocolate pie from, you know, people making it retailers, large factories.
Case 00:16:23 I've done origin tours out to chocolate farms to learn how they're grown and the logistics there. And like I was saying before the shipping logistics. And so I kind of just like was curious and I'm like, I'm just going to go really deep on this hobby and just learn a bunch about it. and again, not even from a business perspective, but more just like from a pure curiosity standpoint. Yeah. and like one of the interesting things that I've done, I kept on hearing year after year at these conferences are, man, if only more people knew about craft chocolate. And it's like, they're like, what are we going to do to get more people to know about craft chocolate? And so it's like I kept on hearing this year after year and it's like, you know, and I honestly still don't have a great answer for you. Like, I don't think there is a really good answer to that question, but yeah, it's like how, you know, how can we provide high quality chocolate to people and also support the farmers that are growing? And I think that's like the bigger question that a lot of people in, in the chocolate industry are talking about.
Case 00:17:19 and so like from my perspective, I just like I just love nostalgic things. It's like, I love chocolate milk. I love Reese's Cups. it's funny because, like, I have all this nostalgia for them. And then I had a Reese's Cup the other day. And I'm not the biggest fan of, like, the traditional Reese's Cup now. It's a bit too sweet for me, but, you know, there's like Trader Joe's has their dark chocolate peanut butter cups, which are kind of my like, you know, that's my my go to place. But it's just kind of interesting of just like it was something that I just kind of noodled on for a long time. I was like, you know, how can if I was ever to start something in the chocolate space, like, how do you go about increasing the amount of people that are interacting with it? How do you, you know, create products or experiences that can support chocolate in that way that isn't just chocolate bars? Because that's that's the other thing is, I think the industry is is very focused on making chocolate bars, but the consumer themselves don't eat a lot like they eat chocolate bars, but they eat candy bars, they eat peanut butter cups, they drink chocolate, you know, they do all these things that are aided by chocolate, but not physical chocolate bars.
Case 00:18:23 Right? And so, it essentially came to this, this point in time where I had been, kind of getting burnt out at work. I had been working at this company for four and a half years. we had done a lot of, like really, really cool stuff, but it kind of like felt like there was going to be a natural stopping point where, like, it wouldn't make sense for me to be there anymore. both from like a values perspective for me. But, you know, it's like, I think at a lot of companies at a certain point, unless you're willing to like, change things dramatically, you kind of hit a natural ceiling with learning, where you kind of, like, grow away from what the company is currently doing. And so I kind of, like, saw this on the horizon as, like something that was eventually going to be happening. And I was like, oh, okay. Interesting. Like, what do I want to do about this? Do I want to like, try and change roles within the company? Do I want to, you know, figure out if I want to be doing, you know, what other companies I want to be working for? And so I kind of just like this open ended exploration of, like, you know, what are this? You know, eight different options I could do.
Case 00:19:24 And what would they look like? And the one that I ended up kind of settling on early on last year, you know, maybe middle of last year was like, actually, I should just take the year off. Like, I've kind of had these periods in my life where when I give myself a free time like six months or something like that and save up money to, you know, take six months off, it's like I end up doing something fun and interesting. And so it's like I kind of had these like fun little like, I think chocolate, like deep Dive hobby was partially spurred by one of these kind of like, you know, little mini sabbaticals that I took. And so I was like, okay, you know what I'm going to do? Like, I'm just going to save up enough money to take the year off. And so I had like kind of spent a long time saving up money and kind of reducing my expenses. And so I'm like, I'm just going to take the year off.
Case 00:20:05 That was like my original proposal to myself as like, I'll kind of get over this burnout a little bit. Yeah. And take the year off. And then what ended up happening was I was like, wait a second. Like, if I ever wanted to start a business, you know, I, I've done a lot of software stuff, but I'm like, I kind of want to try starting a real business where I'm actually interacting with people. Like, I get a lot of energy giving this chocolate away to people already. You know, I was like, what would it be like to actually make chocolate and sell it right, or something like that? And so I was like, well, if I was ever if I was ever wanting to try something, why don't I do it now when I've created this little bit of a safety net for myself to take the year off? Yeah. Like now seems like maybe the perfect time to try that. And worst case scenario, after the year is up, I just go get another job again.
Case 00:20:51 Like, that was kind of how I had sold it to myself in my head because, you know, I think there's a lot of fear, you know, and especially in this instance where I was like, the industry, this is like way different from the industry that I'm in. Like food manufacturing cannot be far.
Speaker 4 00:21:05 Further away.
Case 00:21:05 From software engineering. Yeah. and I just I found that very, very interesting of like, okay, like worst, worst case scenario, I get a job, get another job again and I go back to software. but honestly, it and I didn't want to set any expectations on it, but it has been so wild already four months in that I will probably not need to go back to software unless I want to, but right now I don't want to.
Jenny 00:21:28 So wow, wow. There's so there's so much to, unpack here. And I was trying to think of a chocolate pun that I could say, like, I really want to fill this with. All right, but, but okay, like the level of curiosity that you have, like, from even, like, going back in the day, like to when you just wanted to learn about this in the first place and like the curiosity about starting this as a business and learning about it and going on tours and, and, you know, reading things and talking to people like, you know, I have a couple questions about that.
Jenny 00:22:01 And like time management, for example, when you're working a full time job, how do you do that and then juggle everything else? But I think like the other thing that comes up like is like kind of this career growth and this development that we have, you know, what, what does it look like at an organization? And then also when we take a step back, what do we want it to look like for ourselves? And then there's a third piece of this, which is the calculated risk piece, which is like you kind of had this, you know, you weren't sure what this looked like, but you knew that you might want to do, you know, take some time off. And so you started to kind of shift your spending habits, saving up money and just putting it away simply because you're like, well, maybe, you know, well, maybe, maybe. And I think a lot of that the time, like, it's the money that holds people back from making these types of pivots, but knowing that, like, it doesn't have to happen immediately.
Jenny 00:22:56 You don't have to leap right away. You can kind of stuff some money away into your, you know, future career flip, savings account and, you know, eventually figure it out. And then when you feel ready to just go, you could go, but like, let's hop back these two other things that I've been thinking of, like with the time management. Because I hear this all the time, oh, I wish I could do this or this hobby or this or learn this. I don't have the time. So I'm curious, while you were in this really, like, deep curiosity phase of like, I like this, I want to learn more. How did you find the time to do that? Plus juggling everything else you had going on in life?
Case 00:23:35 Yeah, it's kind of interesting. I feel like part of it was me forcing myself to do it, which kind of sounds.
Jenny 00:23:41 A.
Case 00:23:41 Little. Yeah, I think.
Jenny 00:23:43 Oh, that makes sense.
Case 00:23:44 I think one of the biggest struggles I had in the software industry was that it's not a particularly healthy ecosystem in, in and of itself.
Case 00:23:57 Like you're sitting at a desk or standing. Nowadays, a lot of people have standing desks, but you're sitting or standing at a desk, staring at a computer, typing for hours and hours a day on end. Sometimes, especially now in the remote world, you have meetings sometimes, but a lot of times you're just, by yourself interacting with a screen all day, every day. And so, part of it was borne out of me wanting to, be mentally sane and more balanced by being like, okay, I need to do things with my hands. And so that's why, like, I feel like all throughout my early 20s was me trying all these fun arts and crafts, and I got into woodworking and all of these things to purposefully do something that did not involve a computer screen. And I could do something more physical with my body or with my hands or, or something like that. And so part of it was a therapy almost of like, listen, I'm, I'm working this super stressful job where I'm not interacting with people and I'm like, confined to a physical space in front of a screen.
Case 00:24:55 So, like, I need to carve out time in the rest of my day to rebalance myself to do the things that I'm missing, which is like in my case, was socialization. Like doing things with my physical body and being present, because a lot of, I think, hard mental desk jobs are about being in your head and not being present.
Jenny 00:25:15 Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I totally resonates too, with, like, furniture restoration. Like, I, I didn't know how great it felt to be doing work outside the computer and how many different things you use used to think when you're working with your hands. And like it was such a different, unique experience. And I was like, whoa, I'm not sure I could go back to working at a computer 8 to 10 hours a day ever again, I don't know. So like, that totally, totally resonates. And just being intentional. It sounds like you. Yeah. I think you said the word earlier.
Jenny 00:25:47 Deliberate, deliberate, intentional. Like really setting up the stage to be like, I'm I'm going to do this and I will force myself. And I think that's a, a great thing. I think it's sometimes to put that extra, I mean, extra pressure and, you know, and kind of give or take, you know, we have to know our own limits and then what's best for us. But like to put sometimes the extra pressure to take that next step is I think it can be a little forceful, especially at first. But you used to doing it. It's a change. It's unfamiliar. It's. Yeah. So you you started it and you are now four months in and you're like, yeah, I probably don't have to go back. I mean, if I want to, I can, but I'm at this place now where you're connecting with people and the community and the way that you really want to show up in a way that also comes from like this very creative, heartfelt part of yourself, and you're nourishing us all with this delicious, amazing chocolate, which I am so grateful for.
Jenny 00:26:50 So let's talk about that. You know, I guess, what was it January when that happened? Was that okay, so North Park Farmers Market January. Like what did it look like? What was going through your head when you were kind of prepping for that and like setting up that tent that first day and like, you know, how did you even also like the name? Like if you also like, share a little bit more about the business itself, what was going through your mind that first time you were out there? Because, you know, I saw it from my side. I'm like, oh, this is so cool. But like, who knows what was going through your head? So here's a little bit more about that in San Diego Chocolate cow.
Case 00:27:27 Definitely. Yeah. So I mean, I feel like it kind of like started six months or maybe, maybe realistically three months earlier than January, just as an idea in my head. That's when I was like, kind of toeing the water about, what do I want to be doing? You know, I had already decided to take the year off.
Case 00:27:42 And, you know, maybe if I was going to do this, maybe I should do it. And like I had already said, it's funny enough, San Diego Chocolate Co, I had already named it a while ago because it was just the stamp that I had put on the chocolate when I was giving it away to like friends and family when I moved here to San Diego. So like that wasn't really super well thought through. and that might also change in the future. I'm not, I don't know. I'm not great at marketing or branding. I would say. but that was kind of always meant to be a temporary thing, so I don't know how long that will last, but, it works really well for now. but that was the thing. It's just like, it turns out food manufacturing is very complicated. The health department has a lot of requirements. And so like, a lot of, like December and January was just like, how logistically do I show it? Like a lot of people think you just show up to the farmers market with a tent and there's so much more that happens.
Speaker 5 00:28:31 Gosh, yeah.
Case 00:28:32 And so that first day was actually just like pure excitement because it was finally like the I got through all of the hurdles, I got all of the health department permits. I have all of the things I need to have, which of course, you know, you never do. I, you know, forgot some things, but, you know, it's like I showed up to do the best that I could on that day. And, I think that was, it was just both the pure excitement, but also like people like you where you're like, I've never met you before. You've never met me before, and yet you showed up and you know, you got something from me. And I'm like, I can't believe. Like, this is what I guess is what running a business is like, right? But it's like, it was just so surprising to me, coming from a place where I had never really sold something that wasn't like a piece of software or a piece of computer code.
Case 00:29:14 And this was like, you know, you're both trusting me as an individual that you don't know with a food product which could potentially poison you or.
Speaker 5 00:29:22 You know, who knows, right? But it's like, yeah, you know, I thought it was just.
Case 00:29:27 A big eye opener for me of like, wow, I finally made it to this point of like, I could do what I wanted, which is like it'd be fun to just have a farmer's market. Like, I just thought that would be a fun thing. And again, like, even if it never turned into anything, I spent a few months having a farmers market booth and that would still be fun. Right? Yeah, I was trying to look at it from that lens. but. And it's just kind of gone crazy ever since, like, I'm like, on this crazy roller coaster now, and like, I'm trying to, you know, I talk a lot about being deliberate, and so I'm trying to be more deliberate.
Case 00:29:56 I don't want this like this hyperscale a lot of software companies have. And so I'm like, I'm trying to, like, slow things down a little bit so that it is a sustainable thing.
Speaker 5 00:30:05 Right.
Jenny 00:30:07 Yeah. No, that makes sense. And yeah, I can tell like your thought process with that. Very like that. Like kind of systematic. I want to stay deliberate. I want to stay close to the values of the why behind why you started this. And I love that. And I think that's true. I don't know anything about like the food part of like the farmers market, but I can't even imagine how like, wild that is with permits and all these things like that. Sounds like a whole other job right there. I'm sure that you don't want to do without, but like you did.
Speaker 5 00:30:38 Yeah. You pushed. Yeah.
Jenny 00:30:40 Figured it out and and.
Speaker 5 00:30:42 Yeah, I.
Case 00:30:43 Think it's funny too, because, like, you know, the timing's never great for anything. I think that's like, I feel like I hear it from a lot of people that are like, oh, you know, and you kind of alluded to it earlier, like, oh, I don't have the time or oh, I'm waiting because I don't, I can't do this yet or whatever.
Case 00:30:55 And it's like, realistically the timing's never going to be perfect. And so that's why I was like, I think it was, you know, late November or early December that I'm like, I'm just going to start applying for these permits. I was still working my job. And so it's like it was fine because it was like, you know, only a few hours here and a few hours there and research and back and forth with government agencies and things. And so, I luckily was able to start doing some of that work because I and I'm glad that I did because like if in January when I actually started, if I would have waited to do anything until January, I wouldn't have been at that farmer's market booth in probably until March. Right. And so it's like or maybe even, April. And so, it's kind of nice that I was able to kind of like, squeeze in doing some of this work ahead of time. And I even had a, a side plan of even doing one market a week with my current job.
Case 00:31:46 Like, I was like I had set up an agreement with my boss that I'm like, I'll, I have to take the half a day off on Thursday so that I could do the farmer's market that night, and I'd work the half a day on Saturday or whatever. You know, I was like, I was ready to do that if I needed to. But again, I because I didn't know what the timing looked like and how long anything was going to take, and the cards all just fell how they did. But it ended up working out that I had left pretty much the 1st of January or, you know, end of end of December, 1st of January, and then my first booth at the farmer's market, I think was the third week in in January. So it kind of just it ended up working out in that instance. but a lot of times it doesn't. The timing doesn't work out. So.
Jenny 00:32:22 Right. And that's a good point. That's a good point. There never is.
Jenny 00:32:26 The timing is not going to work out the way that you have in your mind. But also there never is a right time. It's just now like if you're interested, okay, let's look into this now as opposed to just keep pushing it off, because just what you said like this could have been a very different story. You could have not had your first one till March or April and sort of, you know, been.
Case 00:32:44 It would have been fine. I would have never met you. Probably. Right. Or you know, whatever. Right. And so it's like it's kind of interesting. So yes, you know, part, part of me is like, you know, I think doing anything new is always going to be scary. I think. And if it's not scary, then it's not new enough or, you know, something like that, which is kind of interesting. And so not or it's not, adventurous enough. And so like, I think if you're trying something new, inevitably I think it's going to be scary.
Case 00:33:08 And so, like, you kind of have to just push past that. And it's like, if you want to do it, do it. Like don't sit around waiting for the right time or the right place or, you know, I was fortunate enough to be able to save up a, you know, money to take that. You're off to do this. But part of me is like, I probably didn't even need to, like, I think I was I had delayed this. I probably again, I probably could have even started six months sooner is like another interesting thought I had of like, you know, I, I set up a lot of this psychological safety for myself, but realistically, I probably waited too long and could have jumped in even sooner than I did. But I'm glad that I'm here now. Like, I can't complain. But that's another thing to think about, is like there's always you could always do something sooner, I think, if that makes sense.
Jenny 00:33:48 So yes.
Jenny 00:33:49 Yeah. No, that makes so much sense. It's like these, these kind of limitations that we put on ourselves. Or you mentioned that that safety net or just like being able to give ourselves permission to be curious and like, try something new. I feel like right there, it's like we put so much on ourselves, like before I got laid off from my tech job, like I never even like there were things that I like to do, but I never thought, no, I, I didn't think that I could do anything else. I thought, no, this is what I'm good at. This is all I'm good at is my tech job. This is my whole purpose. Like, until you don't have it. Then I was like, well, maybe I need to reevaluate this and like, rethinking it, but like, then I rethink it and I look back and I'm like, wow. Actually, I think maybe I could have done something different all along. But like the time, you know, we we look back and we're constantly like thinking of that.
Jenny 00:34:41 Obviously it's no good for us because it got us to where exactly we're at now. But I think it is so interesting for people listening who may be thinking about making this change or doing something different, just starting something on the side or exploring a hobby. And like that would really shake up their life. And they're, they're just maybe not giving themselves permission.
Speaker 6 00:35:01 Yes. Yeah.
Jenny 00:35:04 And so kind of on that note case I, I am curious like what is the chocolate making process right now. Are you still in your kitchen. Do you have something else going on. Like how do you how are you scaling right now for for the chocolate.
Case 00:35:18 Yeah, yeah. So it's gotten kind of interesting. It is still the the chocolate bars are based out of my house. Still kind of like converted a closet and part of the kitchen into a bit of a chocolate factory, I love it. but all of the chocolate milk itself has to be done at a commercial kitchen. And so I do that there.
Case 00:35:34 But the commercial kitchen I might can't support also me making the chocolate there. So, the current process right now is kind of a hybrid all over the place. and now that I'm doing vending at three markets a week, I also don't have enough time to also make all of the chocolate myself. And so I've had two friends who are both in between jobs right now here helping part time as well. And so I'm kind of like have more hands on deck, which is great. So it's not just me. and still kind of in this in-between state of like, still doing some stuff at home, some stuff with the commercial kitchen, some stuff at the market. And so it's kind of all over the place, to be honest. But, it's working for now. starting to hit some limitations of like, you know, still wanting to be a nice roommate to the people that I live with of like, you know, I think the joke the other day was I had I had told one of my roommates like, oh, so sorry.
Case 00:36:22 There's, you know, some chocolate crumbs on the ground or whatever. I'll like, clean them up. And he's like, don't worry about it. There's always chocolate on the ground. And it's like, oh no. Like, I don't want I don't really want that from a nice roommate perspective, you know? But but yeah, it's, you know, again, it's one of those things where it's like, you know, I could have waited until I found a kitchen that was perfect for making chocolate in, but realistically, it might not have ever happened, and it still might not happen. Right? So I was like, I'm like, at a certain point, I kind of just have to be like, all right, I'm making chocolate at home. Like, that's how I can do it right now. And hopefully that can change in the future. But in order to get this thing going, you know, it's like, I think that's kind of one of my constant things is how to toe the line between both like values or like how I want to do things, and also just like actually doing them.
Case 00:37:08 and so like, you know, I do care a lot about environmental, you know, environmental packaging and sustainability and things like that, but also like doing environmentally friendly and sustainable packaging as a small company is very, very difficult. And so it's like if I were to wait until I found the perfect packaging and supplier and then like a way that I can make it, it's like I would probably have again, never this company would not exist right now because I'd still be trying to figure out how to package my chocolate in a biodegradable bag. Right? And stuff like, that's one of those interesting things where like I am working towards getting there, but like, yeah, if you kind of expect and want things to be a certain way, it's like you'll you might stop yourself from ever getting there, if that makes sense. Like if I would have waited till I found the perfect kitchen to make chocolate in, I might again might not have. We might. We wouldn't be where we are today. And so it's kind of like you kind of have to compromise until you can work towards an area where you get where you want, I think.
Jenny 00:38:05 Yes. Oh my gosh, yes, 100% to all that. And it's like it's so easy to compare ourselves and be like, oh, so-and-so or this company has this big, you know, kitchen or this or that or whatever you see on social. And it's like, well, I'm not there. I'm just not going to bother. Like when I work on furniture, I'm like, I don't have a wood shop fully equipped with all the best tools. I mean, I'm literally in my garage and it's great, and I'm so grateful because sometimes I'm just like, I look around, I'm like, this is where it begins. Like, this is this is where it begins. Like it's messy. It is like also with, you know, a car in the garage and my and like, my peloton bike, but also all my furniture tools. I'm like and even with the podcast, I mean, I don't know, I'm not a professional podcast host. I didn't know how to even start when I was like, googling startup.
Jenny 00:38:53 I was like, I didn't know, but if I would have let not knowing or let not having all the best tools and resources, I would have never done it. And I think that just goes to say for both of us of like, sometimes you just gotta do it even when you're not ready or have all the right tools or equipment or, you know, you you have roommates and there's chocolate on the ground. Honestly, I would probably just look it up off the floor. That would be just me. That's also maybe TMI for everyone listening. But I love chocolate. But anyways. But I feel like like that would not be a problem for me. But like, I just I think that that is such a good call out because so many people listening to the show, I get messages of like even from other people who I've reached out to like for, for example, when I like slid into your DMs and was like, oh yeah, hey, Matt. And like, I'd love to have you on.
Jenny 00:39:41 you know, I'll kind of like, reach out to other people that I see who flip their careers, and they may say yes, but then they may be like, actually, no, I'm not, like, big enough yet. Or let me like, get this. And I'm so grateful and grateful, but for them being open to it, but also like, oh, I wish I could capture that moment of like the beginning, early stages when it's still trying to be like, you know, it's still figuring things out and it's messy and it's, you know, you're jumping around like, I feel like that's the reality of it. And that is the magic in it. It's the stress in it. But it's like, what makes it, I don't know.
Speaker 6 00:40:15 Like.
Jenny 00:40:16 It's not supposed to be easy because if it was, everyone would do it right.
Case 00:40:20 Like, yeah. And it's never as clear cut to I think, you know, it's like and I think something that people can kind of think about is like, I would I would say, like, if you look within like the own job that you're working or the company you're working for or your own situation, it's like everything, you know, inevitably there's things that are like a shit show or not going well or like processes that are bad that could be better.
Case 00:40:40 And you just think like, oh, that's just the company I'm at or the job that I'm doing, or, you know, the relationship I'm in. But like, realistically, that's how everything is. That's how the entire world is like everything's a shit show. Like everybody is just doing the best that they can. Yeah. So it's like if you're kind of waiting for things to be perfect, you might not ever that might not ever happen. Right. and so that's where I find it kind of interesting of like, well, you know, it's not perfect that I'm like, I have production at home and production at the kitchen and then the farmers market. And I'm like, every time I do something, I have to move it three times, but like, I'm making it happen. Like, that's the way I can make it happen right now. And that's the best I can do. And you know, my only hope is that in the future, I can only move something twice instead of three times, because I have a dedicated space for it.
Case 00:41:24 You know, maybe even once.
Speaker 6 00:41:26 Yeah.
Case 00:41:27 So that's just the, you know, the best it can be, but I don't. It's funny because I do consider myself somewhat of a perfectionist because I care a lot about craftsmanship. But yeah, at the end of the day, I also care that, like, I'm able to bring joy to people. And so, like, I don't want to let my perfectionism get in the way of me bringing joy to people. And so, like, if I if I were to just wait and never, never do it, then that, you know, I'll never be able to give give that to people. Right?
Speaker 6 00:41:54 Yeah.
Jenny 00:41:55 Oh my gosh, that was said so. Well, you never want your perfectionism to get in the way of bringing joy to people. I, I love that. I love that that's I just Yeah. I don't know that that really, Is. It just really stands out to me because that.
Speaker 6 00:42:12 Really.
Jenny 00:42:13 Speaks to, you know, this semi-retired people pleaser in myself of like, who's, you know, constantly trying to, you know, all the things.
Jenny 00:42:20 But it's just like, we don't want to let ourselves get in the way of what actually matters. And I think that's that's a really important, important lesson for all of us to take away. Like while we're eating some delicious chocolate. So I just had to keep believing that in case this has been incredible, I am so happy to have met you. I'm so happy to, you know, be talking today. And also, I'm so looking forward to picking up more goodies at the farmer's market very soon. So how can people find you, connect with you, buy from you all the things? How can they connect?
Case 00:43:05 Yeah, totally. I mean, on a personal side, I will I'll provide my email to you. You know, you can put that in the notes and anybody can reach out to me at any point. If you have questions about literally anything, it doesn't have to be chocolate or software. I'm happy to be happy to chat about whatever you'd like. from the chocolate company side.
Case 00:43:22 Yeah, the company is called San Diego Chocolate Co. We're based here in San Diego, and we are at a few farmers markets. Where at the North Park Farmers Market, the la mesa Farmers Market, and the Hillcrest Farmers Market. And then you can also buy chocolate bars online. And we ship anywhere in the US at San Diego. Chocolate.
Speaker 6 00:43:41 Amazing.
Jenny 00:43:42 Thank you so much, case. This is awesome I appreciate you.
Case 00:43:47 Awesome. Thank you Jenny.
Jenny 00:43:49 Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the Career Flipper podcast. To connect with case, check out the links in the show notes. If this conversation helped you feel a little less tangled up about your own career change, or maybe you know someone who's stuck in the what am I even doing with this loop? Well, go ahead and share this episode with them. Make sure to like and subscribe the podcast so you don't have to miss future episodes. I wouldn't want that. Sometimes a little nudge in something that shows up in your playlist is exactly what you need to hear.
Jenny 00:44:24 And if you have a career flip story you want to share, or maybe you want to have me speak about flipping careers at your next event, head over to the Career flipper.com and drop me a message. And hey, just remember, even if it feels small or messy right now, every little step you are taking is moving you forward. You've totally got this. So what's the best that could happen?