From renaissance faire merchant to cartographer, meet Jenna Leveille of Phoenix, Arizona
In this episode of The Career Flipper, I chat with Jenna Leveille, who went from working as a merchant in the travelling Renaissance Festival circuit to becoming the Deputy State Cartographer of Arizona and now she’s the VP of State and Local Government Strategy at a mapping company.
But this journey? It’s anything but straight. Jenna’s path weaves through non-traditional college years, a detour into zoology (because saving the world felt like a good place to start), and finally landing in the world of geospatial tech and GIS.
We talk about what it’s like to not have it all figured out, to follow your curiosity, and to keep showing up, even when the next step is unclear. If you’ve ever felt like your career map is a bit...hand-drawn in pencil, this one’s for you. Jenna proves you can absolutely make your own route—and that community, resilience, and a little self-trust can take you further than you imagined.
Connect with Jenna
I think it really shows how most of our lives are not linear, how we get. Where we go is not a straight path at all, ever for any of us. Hello and welcome to the Career Flipper podcast. I'm your host Jenny Dempsey. Just a regular human trying to make sense of this wild ride called life. One or five plot twists outta town.
This whole thing, this whole podcast thing started after I got laid off from my customer experience tech job. Then I couldn't find a new job and I had to get real scrappy. So I started restoring junk furniture and selling it. I then started asking people how they made big life and career changes because I felt so weird.
Like, who goes from tech to covered in paint and sawdust in the garage with furniture? They pulled off the curb. And honestly their stories helped me feel a lot less alone, so I thought, why not share the good stuff with you too? This is really the space for all of us who've ever sat at our desks thinking, is this it?
As another meeting pops on the calendar, that should totally be an email. But you've dared to imagine something different and you're not crazy, you're not alone, and you can do it. You can figure it out, but it's probably gonna be messy. It's gonna take a while and you may get some raised eyebrows, but these episodes every week from people around the world who've actually done it are proof that it can be done.
Today's episode features Jenna Laville from Phoenix, Arizona, from leaving home with her parents', not tooth. Thrilled in traveling with the Renaissance Festival to studying zoology to becoming the freaking deputy state cartographer of Arizona. Jenna's career path is a masterclass in following curiosity and Roland with the unexpected, even as she sleeps under the stars in the forest on the festival ground.
She now works as the VP of state and local government strategy at Sanborn Mapping Company, and throughout it all, she reminds us how community flexibility and trusting yourself can take you places you didn't even know existed. What I love most about Jenna's story is that it proves that you don't always need to know exactly where you're going.
Sometimes, like Jenna, you just write the damn map yourself. Let's get into the episode now. Hello, Jenna. It's so great to have you here on the Career Flipper. Thank you so much for joining. Hi, Jenny. It's an honor and a pleasure to be here. Thank you for inviting me. Well, thank you. I am so glad that our mutual friend, Frank, connected us because you have an incredible flip one that I think a lot of people, um, wouldn't expect.
And so I'm really excited to hear you talk about it, um, and share, you know, how you went from point A to point B. Um, but Jennifer first tell everybody. What you do now. Okay. Um, so I am the VP of state and local government in the business development and strategy. Section of Sanborn Mapping Company. Um, essentially what I do is strategy around geospatial and helping solve problems in the geospatial industry.
Uh, I love it. It's a recent change. For me to be in this position. Previously, I was the deputy state cryptographer for Arizona State Land Department, and I coordinated geospatial data across the state. So now it's really nice to kind of, I don't know, be adjacent to what I was, I can, I can sit in my sweet spot and do the things that I'm really good at, so I'm, I'm really enjoying it.
I've been with Sanborn now for a little more than six months, and it's, it's going well. That's amazing. That's amazing. And does everyone stop and ask you for directions? Are you the one who everyone goes to? No. Thank goodness. That's so funny. I had to ask that. I, I could not resist. Well, you've had, I mean, even just recently, some very, like, sometimes they're called flip slides, glides, whatever we call 'em.
There's been transitions for your career. And so how did you, let's just get into it. How did you start? With your career, Jenna, where, where did you begin? Oh goodness. Um, we have to go back further than what I'll probably admit in years. Um, and, and it's not linear. How I ended up in GIS and Geospatial Technologies was really kind of a happy accident.
Um. But I think at least what we've talked about before, this was where I was before I ended up in GIS and it, it's one of those stories that I haven't told often, but the few folks that I've told have been like, oh my goodness, you came from where? Um, so I took a non-traditional path. Out of, out of high school.
Um, I, I was always the a plus student and always very interested in academics when I was in high school and quickly got burnt out before I ever reached college. There were life things that happened 'cause that is what happens when you're that age. Um, and I really was looking for something different and I, by happenstance ended up traveling with the Renaissance Festival and.
I did that for eight years and I think some people have, have exposure to the sort of national, um, scenario. I don't know, national. Uh, Renaissance Festival network 'cause there are many in all the states. So some folks are aware of that. What they might not be aware of is that they are kind of connected, although they all stand alone.
So the people that travel there is a, a faction of people that travel from Renaissance Festival to Renaissance Festival. So I was with that faction of people and what that meant was that I lived very rustically for eight years. Initially I only had stuff that would fit on public transportation and I lived in a tent for two years.
Um, no running water, no electricity, and my stuff, my two bags that fit everything was my costumes, my camping gear, my. Everything, everything just fit. Um, and I learned about the, the nation. I got to travel around and see things, and it was, it was truly transformative enough that I stayed with it for eight years before deciding to, to do something more mainstream.
So it was really a different way to start my life, um, for for sure. I, I would say that. It provided me a foundation where I didn't have a lot of wanderlust when I started college 'cause I had seen the country. Um, the way the Renaissance works is that most people that travel with it only work the weekend.
So I had a lot of time to explore. Um, so I didn't have that piece. I didn't wonder what else was out there, but I also got this taste of a subculture where it was very inclusive and very. Very tight. Um, so I felt like I had experienced a tribe and that I had a different network of support so I could go and do something totally different.
Um, it took me eight years to get there. But I was really excited when, when I did, so I don't know. What questions do you have about all that? Oh gosh. Well, first of all, you went from being, so you were the a plus student, and then I'm guessing there's lots of planning, like you had structure and then you go into this world or.
What I'll call is, uh, it's a tribe, the, the environment where you were that, you know, yes. On the weekends, it sounds like, you know, because essentially it is a business and you worked as a vendor, right? Um. And then you had structure there, but throughout the week and like where you slept and and how you lived on the daily was very, and and I'm just assuming it sounds very unstructured.
Do you remember at that point, like what that transition was like at first when you kind of. Joined the tribe you're in that, you know, new environment because I think a lot of us sometimes, you know, when we do kind of shift, whether it's you know, a full flip or if it's just going into something new, there's always that kind of.
I, I don't know what you'd call it. It's just like a little bit of a, a transition period and it can get a little, I don't know, you get a little scrappy and can be uncomfortable. Did you experience any of that or was it kind of just like, I'm here, I'm free, I'm young, I'm like doing all this stuff. Like what was that like?
Well, um, yes, it was, it was different. It was very different. I would, I would. Start with, it was at a, it was before cell phones, so we weren't all connected in the way that we are now with cell phones, where, you know, like my mom couldn't find me if she, I mean, it was hard for her to get ahold of me. Yeah. Um, I would say I was in the stage in my life that I think a lot of young people are at 18 where you don't know enough to be scared.
You don't know enough to be. Uncomfortable, so to speak. You're just very interested in exploring and it's all very interesting. Right. So I think I was, well, like the day-to-day living was way different than what I was accustomed to. I came from middle class, you know, all my needs were met. Um, two living in dirt, literally.
Um, and figuratively, no heat, no, no running waters. So there were. Things that were not easy. Mm-hmm. How do you keep your food gold? What do you, yeah. How do you cook? How do you, how do you do all of those things? So there were definite things that were uncomfortable, but it was all an adventure. I didn't know enough to know that this was hard.
I didn't, I didn't know that. Mm-hmm. Um, I was surrounded by really interesting people and I was really curious. So. Well, yes, when I think back there were challenges and now I really love indoor plumbing. Even still, um, yeah, I, I didn't think of it as a hardship. It was an adventure. It was, it was wonderful.
I think my mother thought it was a hardship. Mm-hmm. I, I'm pretty sure. Mm-hmm. Because she couldn't find me, couldn't talk to me. Not unless I, I did that. Yeah. What did they say when you told them that this is what you're gonna do after high school? No. No, this is not an option. Um, and, and I, I didn't give them a choice.
I did it anyway. Yeah. So probably one of the most cathartic things that I don't even think I really understood at that age was selling everything, because even at 18, you know, 17, you have stuff. Mm-hmm. Because you grow up with stuff, right? Yeah. And liquidating my life into two bags because that was what I could get on public transportation was eyeopening.
All the things you don't need. Um, one of, one of my favorite parts of it, even still, I really thought through like what that meant. 'cause I had a whole bunch of things that I had to have. I had to have costuming, I had to have camping stuff. I had, I had to have certain things. Mm-hmm. Um, but we all collect things because that's, that's what humans do.
Mm-hmm. Uh, so I bought a little box. It was like a little, like eight by six box that was empty. It was this little wooden carved box. Mm-hmm. Um, and that was what I allowed myself to collect. Mm-hmm. Anything that fit in that box, I still have that box. I collected all sorts of things that were really important to me as I, as I traveled.
Yeah. And still there are notes, there are rocks, there are things that are really precious memories to me in, in that box. And it was over 30 years ago that I stopped traveling. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That's special. And. I will say the costumes, I've been to Renaissance fairs and I know just by watching, you know, everyone dress up like the cost.
There's a lot to a costume. Yeah. I mean they're, they look heavy. I remember trying one on there, you know, you could go try on the dresses and what have you. First of all, they like ci you up so tight, but then like the dresses are very heavy. So I am hearing you say, you know. These two bags and, and you have this one box for special items that you collect over time and like that's a lot to carry around.
Yeah, that's a lot. Yeah. And the costuming was grand for sure. Yeah. Um, and it depended on which show we were at. There were requirements for some shows, like Mm, okay. Couldn't, you had to have shirts down. Women had to have shirts down to their wrists and down to the ground, and you had to have multiple. Uh, skirts or dresses, you had to have a bodice.
That's the cinched up part of it. Mm-hmm. So that you looked of, of the time that you were impersonating. Um, yeah, there was a lot to it. My, I didn't have a lot of resources and obviously my family was like, uh, what are you doing? So my grandmother and I made all of my costuming together. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I still have parts of that too. Wow. So, so you take this kind of this early pivot and you go into something brand new and you find a community of people that you, it sounds like, became a second family, and you have pieces from home. You know, the things that you took, the things that you find along the way that became home along the way, but also this very special dress that you made with your grandma, and you do this for eight years.
At what points? Like how does this change? Because it sounds like, and, and maybe I'm wrong, but I, when I go, we've gone to Renaissance first, it seems like, you know, people of all ages work there, but it's like they all kind of do it for a long time. So what was that pivotal moment where you're like, I'm not doing this anymore?
What changed for you? I think it was a combination of things. I think it's similar to what. What makes anybody decide to do something different? Um, my family, both of my parents were educators, so school was a really important thing. And even though I took a hiatus, I still knew that school was an important thing.
Being educated would change your future. Um, so that was kind of niggling in the back of my head. Um. I felt like I had lived without convenience for long enough. That was part of it too. Yeah. Um, so, and I think my time had made me brave. Like I really wasn't scared to try new things or go new places. Um, and I remember feeling like, okay, it's just time.
I need to do something different. I think I wanna go back to school. I think I wanna. Yeah. Um, so it, it's interesting. I literally chose a spot on a map just 'cause I had heard about it. Um, I had a friend that had lived there for a while, didn't live there at the time. Um, and I picked a spot and did a little bit of research.
At that time, it was not, internet wasn't a big thing. Um. So I rented a room from an ad in a newspaper called Long Distance, and I had chosen Corvallis, Oregon. I literally just picked it off a map and found an apartment that I rented long distance. The the landlord left the key under the map. Um, literally that's where, yeah.
Um, and I didn't have anything, I mean, like stuff, I didn't have a whole lot of stuff. I didn't have tables or chairs or beds or any of that. I had some clothes. Um, so I showed up in Corvallis and got my key out from under the mat and was trying to figure out what was next. I, I didn't have, like, I hadn't applied to school.
I hadn't. I hadn't done a whole lot of things, but I wanted to, so I moved to Corvallis and I figured it out and I ended up in school. Um, and I, I ended up at the end in a, with a degree in zoology of all things. Um, but I think it really shows how most of our lives are not linear, how we get. Where we go is not a straight path at all, ever for any of us.
I think the other thing that it really shows us or illustrates is, um, that humans are adaptable. We can do whatever we want, really. We just have to figure out how to do that and be okay with discomfort, at least some. Um, the Renaissance Festival taught me how to do that. And that I was resilient. Um, so it was okay that I didn't know anybody, that I went to a town where I had to find my way and figure out what that path was, that that was okay.
Mm-hmm. I think that too scared my parents like. Holy cow. She's doing it again. They weren't impressed at this point. I mean, the last you, I feel like that's like such an impressive skillset to build when you're that young, like. I, I think they were grateful. I was still alive and hadn't, and nothing horrible had happened at that point.
I think they were pleased that I intended to go back to school. I still hadn't quite gotten there, but once I got into school, then they were really pleased and proud 'cause that was,
and probably stopped holding their breath for a little while. I think it really scared my mom like, you mean I can't talk to you and you're, I don't know where you are and where I would look if, you know. Yeah. Yeah. I, so, so, yeah. I think they were, they were cautiously optimistic by the time I landed in Corvallis.
Hmm. And then you majored in Zoology and. Did you do anything in that for like, after you graduated or did you just, what happened at that point? Well, I was, I was a kid still. I was an older kid, non-traditional college student. Mm-hmm. Um, but I still had grandiose dreams. I was going to save the world. It was through conservation.
I was, I was gonna save it all. Um. So I was looking for a way to do that through, I intended to go into biology by happenstance. I ended up in zoology, which isn't far off from biology, but still. Yeah. Um, I was really good at hard science stuff. I was really good at chemistry. I was really good at biology.
So that was, that was the interest. Um, so because I was gonna save the world and I was naive, um. There was an ad for an internship opportunity at a place called the Conservation Biology Institute, and I thought, oh, that's the perfect fit. I can save the world. This has been a work. Yes, and so I, I got the internship.
The first day when I started, turns out that CBI, that was what they were called. That's what they're still called. They're still, they're still working. It was a nonprofit and they did all this analysis of, um, habitat and, you know, the state of things. Mm-hmm. So to speak of our natural world and otherwise.
Mm-hmm. Um, with maps. And it was still really new. GIS was a very new technology. Um, we were working in a command line environment. It was not a environment at all, and they taught me how to, how to make maps and how to do analysis and how to use the tools available through GIS. It was just creative enough and just geeky enough with data that I fell in love.
I just, I couldn't get enough. Mm-hmm. Um, and somehow I was still gonna save the world, but I was gonna do it through maps. Hmm. Um, my, my first project out the gate was to work on something called the Protected Areas database, and essentially establish a baseline for that. So map where all the protected areas are in the contiguous US, and then give value to that.
So assess them as far as how they're managed for whatever it's, mm-hmm. Is it completely conserved? Is it managed for resources? What? What is it? Mm-hmm. And there was a methodology to that. So I put the first one together. Now what's really interesting is that that program was purchased by USDS and USDA, I think it was us.
Maybe it's USDA. They now partner with Idaho University and. And it's a, it's a program that is huge. There are, it's well funded, there's lots of people involved. There's a state steward for each state, and they started with the data I created, and it's all built from that. And the, yeah, it's really neat to talk to the people that now run the program because they're doing amazing, amazing things and it's a data set that's used heavily across all kinds of disciplines.
So it's really neat to see it like 25 years later, like, oh my goodness. Yeah, this really has grown. And how cool it is to have that connection. So I didn't, I didn't stay at CBI very long. I got the skills to use the tools, and that led me to Arizona and the Arizona State Land Department. They liked me because I could map.
That was, and I, and I understood how to do that pretty, um, meticulously. So they needed somebody who could map parcels in Arizona. I'm calling my ads gentle nudges because I am not a salesperson. But anyways, I wanted to share a resource for you and you know, if you're feeling stuck in your career and you're listening to this and you're like, but I don't even know where to begin, obviously.
You're not alone, uh, even if it feels like it, but sometimes saying these things and talking about them out loud can really open up like a helpful can of worms. You know, a kind that says, uh, gosh, maybe there is something more out there for me. And I wanted to welcome you to a platform called mentors.cx cx.
Stands for customer experience, but@mentorscx.com, you can book a one-on-one session with me to chat about where you're at now, where you might wanna go, and just start sorting through the flip and fog together. There's no pressure, there's no perfect plan. It's honestly just a space to explore and ask questions.
You can also check out the other incredible mentors while you're there talking about customer experience, business and more, visit www dot mentors dot C as in customer X as in x, right.com today to book a session. Alright, let's get back to Jenna in the episode now. So that's what I did and I, I ended up there as an entry level DIS person and eventually became the deputy state cartographer for Arizona eventually.
Wow. And then how many years did you do that? I was with the state for almost 19 years. 19 years and it was just in the last six months that this was the change to what you're doing now. Is that right? To the private sector? Yep. Wow, that's impressive. You wanted to go out into the world and you wanted to save it, and you wanted to make an impact and.
You did, you made an impact. It's the ripple effect is still rippling today, like Right, and that's impressive. And all those individuals in those roles, you know, the steward roles in every state, like they have their own life and their own story of what led them there. And you. Essentially created that part in their story.
I don't know. I just think that that's incredibly impressive that you went from not really knowing what you wanted to do and kind of, you know, in the Renaissance festivals and, you know, living this very, very different, you know, uh, experience outside in nature and working with people who come to these fairs and traveling around and finding your tribe too.
No, I'm just gonna, just gonna go to school and I'm gonna move to a city that I find on a map and I'm not gonna see the apartment before I move in. I'm just gonna show up and grab the key from under the mat. And I have two bags with me. And, um, I think that, you know, what you said about, you know, things aren't linear and there is power to being a little naive.
I think that there is some, uh, there's a positive side to that, which. I kind of have experienced in my own story, but I kind of feel like you bring it up in such a, a way where it's like, yeah, you didn't maybe have the life experience or the knowledge, but it sounds like it didn't hold you back because you just, you're like, I didn't know.
And it doesn't sound like there was ever a time, Jenna, where you didn't believe in yourself or you didn't, or excuse me, where you didn't not believe in yourself, or you didn't think for any moment, um, I can't do this. Or what am I wrong? Because I don't remember, I don't think I heard that throughout your story that there was a time where maybe you felt scared or maybe something, but did you ever not believe in yourself?
Sure, sure. Um, I think, you know, when we think back on our stories right, we don't, we tend to gloss over the hard parts. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah. There were definite hard parts and parts where I feel like the outcome. Help me find myself better. I was definitely scared. I didn't always know what the next step was.
I, you know, I think everybody goes through like when they may not have enough resources when they are creative in the way that they support themselves. Um, part of my story in there that overlapped both the Renaissance Festival and school and kind of later. Career if I quote unquote, um, I got Lyme disease and that led me on a whole other thing.
Um, I was really sick for a while. I had to learn how to ask for help. I had to learn how to navigate the medical system, which is still broken. Um. I had to, I had to learn that I was resilient from that perspective and determined, and it was really scary at times. Um, what I learned was that, and I'll, I'll preface this with that whole long journey included multiple surgeries.
Um, I ended major surgeries with my back. Lots of, lots of challenge. Um. The outcome is great. I'm better than I was even in my twenties, um, physically as far as that goes. Um, but what I really learned was that our communities are the, are the key. Our people are the key. And it was really hard, and I think it still is really hard for a lot of people to ask for help and to be honest about where you're at.
And I found myself in a predicament where I needed a lot of help and I was single. My parents were far away. My biological family, you know, my immediate nuclear family was not able to, to do it all by any means. And so I had to be really honest and really vulnerable and ask specifically for what I needed.
What I, what I learned is that people will do it. Mm-hmm. People will step up. If they know what you need, if you ask and allow them to help you, people will, will do that. And I was very, very fortunate. Um, I had very gracious people in my life that gave me a lot and helped me tremendously to overcome some physical challenges that were really scary.
Um, and it was important that I asked. It was, it made a difference for them to be able to give, because that's part of who we are as social beings. We want to contribute to others and their wellbeing. So I gave them the opportunity to do that. Mm-hmm. I also learned how important it was to be vulnerable and to, to let yourself be caught when you need it.
I couldn't have done it without the village I had. Yeah. That is a very important. Reminder because it is easier said than done to ask for help. Many of us aren't taught that. It's a lot of the opposite. I know it's, it's what we learned from watching our parents or maybe what our parents kind of, you know, or whoever, just society in general.
You ask for help, oh, you're greedy. Oh, this or that. There's, you know, but it's, at the end of the day, we have to, and to be able to ask for help, and then also when the tables are turned to be able to. Give that help to someone else is incredibly powerful and important and necessary. And to hear that that was part of your journey and such a, you know, I mean, that's a very serious medical, uh, you know, uh, situation that you were in.
And to be able to ask for that help, not really, you know, I mean. Maybe you knew, but also I wonder, was there a point where you're like, I don't know what the next thing is. Like after all of the, you know, navigating the crazy medical system and all of these things, like how much time some things take or how we heal or what we actually need sometimes we don't know.
And putting it out there to get that help from, from your community is, it says a lot about who you are and you know, that's. That's really cool to put it lightly. That's incredibly cool and I appreciate you sharing that. I really think of it as an opportunity. Um, it helped shape who I am and I am incredibly grateful for the people that stepped up.
Am also very willing to step up because I know, you know, one of my friends at one point, I hadn't spoken, this was a person that I was close to when I was pretty sick, and he helped me an awful lot, um, both emotionally and mentally. Um, he was definitely like a father figure to me. Um, he had like, we hadn't had communication in like 10 years and I got an email out of the blue.
And in it, he said, you never really know how you impact others. So you have to be careful what your choices are and how you interact with people because you impact people every day whether you want to or not. Mm-hmm. You don't know, like you were saying, the ripples, you don't know where that goes, and sometimes you'll never know where that goes.
What he was sharing with me was that I had impacted his life in ways that I never anticipated that were really positive. Yeah. And he said it like 10 years after we had had any communication. Yeah. And that really opened my eyes. I, I really do think about all of the unknown stories. Right. We never know.
What somebody's going through. We never know what the challenges are. We nev we never really know. Right? Yeah. So if we're kind, if we aren't open and give people the room to ask mm-hmm. And to receive, yeah. You know, we lose opportunities. So I wanna, I wanna be there. I wanna be the one to give somebody the benefit of the doubt to know that my impact, I may never know.
I want it to be good at as as much as possible, you know? So I try to come from a place of love. I try to come from a place of kindness because I've needed it too, and I've been very grateful for the kindness that I received. So I wanna be that. It makes the world a better place, and we need that. Our world needs that.
Yeah. Very, very well said Jenna, on that same note. If there was someone who was maybe sitting at their desk and they're feeling, I don't know, burnt out or stressed, or they know they wanna make a change, but they're just not sure what, um, and they're maybe scared or they're afraid to ask for help. Um, what advice would you give someone in a situation like that based off of, you know, what you've learned along the way?
I think maybe the hardest and easiest thing at the same time is to tap your network, talk to people and, and trust that you'll be cared for. So ask for what you need and. And talk to people, find out where there's opportunity, go to the people, like depending on what someone's thinking about, right? You never know.
But there are resources and most people have asked if it's an email, if it's a LinkedIn message, most people will respond. Vast majority of people are good people. Yeah, and I would say lean in. Lean into your network and be open to possibility. I think that's part of what makes things less scary. Say yes, say yes.
When you're asked, do the things that I had never thought about doing that, but maybe that's a cool idea. Say yes, you know, fine. Find furniture on the side of the road and make it beautiful. And, but yes, because you, you don't know, you don't know where it might lead. So I, I think take the risks that you're okay with, um, and lean in to your network.
Lean in to your people. If you feel like you don't have people, find them because they're there. You never know. Mm-hmm. They're there for sure. Yeah. That, that's so, so true because you never know, like it's just sometimes these conversations that you have with people out of the blue, someone will say something and it just like a light bulb goes off and it's, yeah.
Never thought of it that way. And it could have been something that you've heard 10,000 other times from other people, which it's just like that way that that one person worded it, I don't know. I feel like there is so much power in just continuing, even if you think you sound like a broken record, even if you think you sound.
Out of control. Like when I, I don't know, you mentioned the furniture. Yeah. But people are like, where'd you get that from? Yeah. Literally picked it up by the trash dump, like Uhhuh. That's easy. They're, wait, what? Like, and you know, I just don't care anymore. Like that's, you know, if that's how you're gonna judge, then whatever.
But all the same is like, we have to look for the po, the opportunities and things that we may not think. Opportunities exists. And I think talking to others and yeah, and, and just these conversations. You never know love. You never know love. Yeah. So that's actually perfect. So I read a lot, both fiction and nonfiction.
I read all, all sorts of things and yesterday I was reading a book and there was this excerpt from it that really fit with this conversation. Yeah. Um, so it says maybe life. Is just a thousand opportunities to step into different versions of ourselves. Perhaps it's like trying on new shoes. Eventually we settle on something fresh and new while still returning to our old favorites time and time again.
So it's all part of like building on ourselves, right? Yeah. Right. Yeah. She settles in opportunities to, to reinvent ourselves, to do something different, to try something new. Right. And just see. Right. Oh, I love that excerpt. Thank you for reading that. Yeah, it's, it really is true. You never know until you just slide on that shoe if it's gonna fit or not.
And I think that's, I mean, right there, we can all take away something important from that because. Whether we're flipping to something completely new or just like sliding into something in maybe a different role with the same company, like either way, that transition period can be a little tricky and we can just, we could try it, and then if we don't, we go back to the old shoes.
But otherwise we could just keep going like, Ooh, these are actually really comfy. But I never would've known had I not put them on, but write it on. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I, I think you were asking about advice. I think the other thing that I think is really important for us as humans is to give of our time. So I think especially in a period of our lives, if there's uncertainty or, you know, looking at transition, I would volunteer, find something.
Some place to volunteer, um, give of yourself and give of your time. Everybody has expertise. Everybody has something to offer. Yeah. But I think that gets us in the right mindset to say yes. Yeah. Right. To give back. Um, and impact, impact something, do, something doesn't, it doesn't even matter what it is. But there are lots of opportunities to do that.
And I think the times in my life that I volunteered a lot, um. It's really rewarding and it's helped me to shape more of my internal dialogue on who I am, where I wanna, where I wanna focus. Mm-hmm. How I want to make, make an impact. I think that's huge. Yeah. I think that's. Yeah. Oh, totally, totally. By giving our time, we're kind of in a way just giving ourselves more time to learn about who we are.
I think that that's like, it's very reciprocal. We think we're giving, and then there are things that come back, but we continue to give, and that even if it's the tiniest little, I don't know, you're, you're like an admin, volunteer job. Everything makes an impact. Uh, yeah. There's, yeah. Volunteer and they always need people vol.
Yeah. Nonprofits always need people, so there's always, there's always opportunities. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Jenna, speaking of opportunities, this has been quite the opportunity for me to have you on. Thank you so much for being here. Where can people find you? How can they connect with you and learn more about the wonderful person you are?
Ah. Um, thank you and thank you for having me. I really appreciate the discussion. It's one of those say yes moments, um, so I appreciate that. Um, probably the best place for folks to find me is LinkedIn. Um, and I'll share my LinkedIn address with you. I am always open for conversations and opportunities, so I hope to, I hope to connect.
I love it. Jenna, thank you so much. I appreciate you and. Thank you again for giving your time. Thank you, Jenny. Thanks for hanging out with me and Jenna on today's episode of the Career Flipper podcast. If you wanna connect with Jenna or dive deeper into her journey, all the links are waiting for you over in the show notes.
If you got a career flip story of your own, I wanna hear it. Head over to www.thecareerflipper.com to share your story. You might just end up on a future episode. Okay. Wherever you are in your journey, just remember every tiny, awkward, brave little step matters, even the ones that feel like detours. So, go on my friend.
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