From paralegal to dog psychologist and trainer, meet Hilary Pratt of San Diego, California
Today I’m introducing you to Hilary, founder of Pack Love in San Diego.
Hilary’s story is one of resilience, curiosity, and following the unexpected signs. After years working in operations and project management, while also navigating undiagnosed endometriosis that left her burnt out, she found herself searching for a new path. What started as a desperate attempt to help her own reactive dog led her into the world of dog psychology, community pack walks, and eventually building her own business.
Now, Hilary runs Pack Love and co-founded Wisdom of the Pack, a structured day camp for reactive dogs. In this conversation, she opens up about:
✨ How a bridge job as a paralegal gave her the space to heal
✨ The transferable skills she carried from her corporate career into entrepreneurship
✨ Why our detours, setbacks, and “nonlinear” paths are actually our training ground
✨ The deep lessons dogs can teach us about trust, presence, and joy
Whether you’re a dog lover, a career changer, or someone figuring out your “messy middle,” Hilary’s story will give you hope that second chances are always possible, even if they come with a few paw prints along the way.
Connect with Hilary
So Hilary we're connected through a fellow career flipper Kim, who was in season one. She, she was, uh, looking to be a museum curator and then decided to go into teaching and she flipped her career. She lives right down the street for me and I love having career flippers in such close proximity. And then she introduced me to you.
Welcome to the Career Flipper. I'm so excited to chat with you today, Hilary. Tell everybody. Who you are, where you are and what you're doing now. Sure. I am, my name's Hilary and um, I have a company called Pack Love. I'm based in San Diego and um, I. Do dog training, but it's a little bit more than that. Um, I'm not on the obedience end of dog training.
Um, I work on, um, relationship building between owners and dogs, um, educating humans. Um, and it's all based in dog psychology, which is getting more to the root of behaviors. Um. Really understanding where, um, how to communicate with your dog, what their needs are. Um, just because we're two different species, um, in our, in our homes, um.
When they should be in the wild, right? Like, so it's like, you know, bringing them into our homes. They don't speak English. Um, so just learning how to coexist together, um, and learn how to speak their language. I love that. And as a dog lover myself and my pup asleep right behind me here as I'm recording.
Um, this is just such a, a fun and interesting topic and I. Think like dog psychology is not something that you hear often. Like I, I honestly think those two words I haven't necessarily heard put together, um, in mainstream. And so how the heck did you even end up falling into a path where you're working with dogs and building connections between them and their owners and like speaking dog language?
Like how did Hillary, like how did this happen? Well, um, over a very long period of time, um, I have a reactive dog and so I, um, was like searching for trainers and like on Instagram and was like, oh my gosh, like, I don't know what to do, right? Like, she's reactive to humans, to the dogs. And so I just kind of like got into this world of like searching and like finding what trainers really resonated with me.
Um. So many didn't. Um, and then I went a few years ago to my first workshop, um, in LA and I was like, oh, this is really cool. Um, it was a three day workshop I brought her, um, and I kind of just like left it at that and I was like, okay, like back to life, right? And then, um, last year I had surgery. And was, um, out of work.
I was, um, on leave for like nine weeks and I was still struggling with reactivity, but I was always kind of back there in the mind. I'm like, okay, like I really resonate with this, you know, the dog psychology type of things. Like how do I, I was like, how do I build that relationship with my dog? Like, what does that mean?
Um, and so came across, um. A 12 week dog psychology program, um, that was online and signed up for that. And then I was like, this is, this is it. Like this changed my relationship with my dog, um, our life together. Um, um, and I was like, I need to share this with people. Like this isn't being talked about. You know, like it's such like a small world and.
It just was so, such a game changer. Um, and so previously. My whole career I had been in mostly in operations, um, in different industries. And then I was always trying to have my own business on the side. I was always hustling, trying to like find that thing that I was passionate about and I enjoyed a lot of things, but it was never like, oh, this is what I wanted to spend the rest of my life doing.
I honestly thought it was operations 'cause I'm just, I like project management stuff. I like. Organization. I like helping companies kind of, um, create really good processes and be efficient. And so I was like, that's what I'm gonna do. And um, I got officially diagnosed with endometriosis. Um. Probably eight years ago, and I was in a really stressful job and it just got so bad and that's when I had been dealing with it since I was 16, but I didn't know what it was.
Um, it just goes very undiagnosed for so long. So for 20 years, um, it was completely undiagnosed and I just was getting so sick and like the stress didn't help and I was like, I can't do this anymore. Um. I just like, I was depressed. I couldn't work out. I couldn't like work and so I had to like leave my career or what I thought was gonna be my career.
And I took a job as a paralegal, um, and. Thankfully, like it was a very low stress job. My boss was amazing. Um, and I was there for six years and had two surgeries during that time. They were, my schedule's really flexible, so it was like a great, yeah. Time and a great learning experience. And I was like, but this is not at all.
I don't wanna be in law. Like, I did have zero desire. Like it was just like a job is what I thought of it as. Yeah. Um, but it allowed me to heal. It allowed me to, you know. Heal my body and, and be in a low stress environment. Um, yeah. And so I just kind of was like, always like, what is that next thing that I'm gonna do?
Like, I couldn't get back into operations. I kept trying, but all the recruiters were like, no, you need to stay in law like you are a paralegal now. And I'm like, I don't want to be. Yeah, okay. I don't enjoy it. And I get like, really nice offers and I was just like, always turn them down. Um, 'cause I was just like, is it worth it?
Like, is it worth it to like do something that I'm not passionate about where I could just stay at my current job and be like, okay, like I have time to work on something that I'm passionate about. Yeah. Yeah. So I ended up having, um, surgery, doing the, um, the course and then kind of fell in with a group, um, called The Bully Breed Bunch.
And I went to their first group mm-hmm. Uh, meetup, and it was for all reactive dogs. And ever since then I've started leading, I started leading classes for them, um, pack walks, and that's kind of how I kind of built up this community. Um, so over the course of like a year and a half mm-hmm. Um, I stayed in my corporate job and then did this and hustled on the side to like build up a network and community because I was like, I, this is what I'm passionate about.
Right? Like, yeah. How can I like exit? Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh. I mean, there's so many things here that I, I'm hearing you say that are so incredibly important and that are so relevant to like the career flipper journeys. Like one, you know, having that feeling inside that like you want to do something meaningful, you want to do something that is.
More than, you know, whatever the regular job is. And the fact that you did that, you know, operations work for so long. Because also there's so many things about it that you like because it, it's very much, you know, the organization part and the structure and like I hear that 'cause I am very much like my brain thinks that way too.
I am operational, I want my structure, I want my project management. Like I want those, those things processes and procedures. But then, you know, when life kind of takes those turns and you, you know, with health is issues and especially, I mean, endometriosis, uh, there's so many doctors that you'll go to, I'm sure you could share on that sort of like, oh, it's just bad periods, or whatever it is.
Like, I mean, it's. It's ridiculous. And that's a whole other topic, but like when you have that already in play and like hearing how it was affecting your day to day life and you know, when you, when the job was not aligned and then suddenly you're health, you're just not feeling well and it's like you can't do anything.
The idea of doing meaningful work and having this kind of like freedom just sounds so. Beautiful. Um, and sometimes maybe, at least from what I've heard from others, sometimes like out of reach. And so you still continue though to like work towards it. And then the other thing, Hilary, is like having the job that allowed you to heal.
And I think that this is an important part and I actually would love to pick your brain a little bit. I have a couple questions, but like. When we're thinking about changing careers, a lot of the times we think about we just gotta jump in and leap in to do it. But there are financial things sometimes that come into play.
Like it's the reality. Like right now, I have a full-time job as well that I'm really considering like, like a, a bridge job as I work towards these other things. But it's a great job and it really gives me that financial stability. Is it what I wanna do forever? I mean, no, but like it's exactly where I need to be.
And to hear you talk about taking on that role that you did for six years, you healed. So it's like this personal, um, opportunity, but also professional opportunity to do what you need to do in a low stress environment with a great leader. It sounds like, and I'm curious, like when it came time to leave that and to put in that notice.
What was kind of going through your head at that time? Because to leave that, I mean, that's very, it sounds very stable to leave that stability, even though you knew it wasn't where you wanted to be leaving stability is so scary. Um, and so what was that like for you when you were kind of moving from that into the next thing?
Yeah, so I think for me it was, um, I mean all of the. I look back and it's like, like I said, I've always wanted to have my own company and I've tried multiple business businesses and so it's like, that was, it's always been like, that's my goal. I just didn't know how to do it or what I was gonna do. But I look back and I see like all the things that I've learned, all the things that I've been able to accomplish.
Yeah. Um. In my mind, I was like, oh, I'm such a loser. Like I'm keeping going on like all these different, you know, jobs and I don't have a career anymore. And, um, I felt really defeated. Um, and I might get a little emotional, but like, it's like I felt like really defeated, right? Like, because I just felt like so.
Like, I've let myself down and I was like seeing, you know, friends have these, these big careers and presidents of com, you know, and I was like, okay, I'm 40 years old, you know, 42 now, but like mm-hmm. I was going through all those emotions and stuff of being like, what am I doing wrong? You know, I've, I've been in all these different industries.
Yeah. It's been like the same mm-hmm. Roles, you know, to an extent like in operations, but it's like, have I really like. Moved up in the companies and stuff like that, like, um, yeah. And so I think for me though, looking back as like, when I was going to make these changes was like I looked back and I was like, this is what I'm, I'm meant to have my own company.
So like all these things that I've learned I can take and apply, right? They're all transferable skills and that kind of like. Was this aha moment for me that I was like, oh, this is really cool now, like, I'm confident in starting a business because I've. I've done operations, I've done marketing, I've done, um, you know, project management.
I've done bookkeeping. I've, you know, it's like I've done all these things over the years. Even like the, the law, like being at the law office was like an incredible opportunity. 'cause we set up businesses all the time. That's like, we did estate planning and bus corporate setups. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, oh yeah, I can, I, my own company, I can like start, you know, do my own taxes, like all these things.
And I can also like, you know. Have these things in my toolbox, right? Yes. Right. And so I think that gave me the confidence, like when I kind of switched my mindset of being like, that was me. Like I didn't like have a career. Yeah, yeah. And being like, well, that's not what I wanted ultimately. Right. Like, that's not, wasn't my goal, um, all these years.
So it's like mm-hmm. Even though it took a long time to get to what my passion was, um. I'm really thankful that it wasn't until, you know, just this year at 42 that I like, was able to be like, oh, okay, I can quit my job. And having that like, yeah, you know. Process and having a supportive partner too. Mm-hmm.
Like my husband is very supportive of, you know, what I wanted to do. Yeah. Um, I think he's, he's like another business. What's this gonna cost? And I was like, that's,
oh my gosh. No. That resonates so much. Like the, the skillset, the things that we learn, it's like. You are exactly where you are today because of all of those skips around that you did, all of the things you learned, all of the jobs that, you know, burned you out. Like all the things that you learned personally, professionally, through all of those got you to the place you are now.
And I think sometimes, um, at least I hear from other people who are thinking about making a change and they're just like, oh, but I don't, I don't know how to start this new business. And it's like. Let's look at what you do know. Like you did this, this, this in the past, like, oh yeah, I guess so. Like, I mean, furniture restoration.
I knew nothing about that, but I knew a lot about customer experience. I knew a lot about tech and startups, so I could use all of those skills and get real scrappy to create something from nothing, and that was really how I leaned into that too. So I'm glad you brought that up because. I feel like that is something that's really overlooked.
And especially kind of going back to what you were mentioning with the recruiters, um, you know, saying to stay in legal, like you clearly could have done, you know, any of these other things because you had the skillset, but it was just in the way that sometimes it's perceived out there, especially by some types of recruiters, that it just is like, no, you stay in your lane and that's.
I mean, one of the biggest reasons why I wanted to start this podcast, because we don't have to stay in our lane. We can do other things and it's totally possible. And if someone says you can't, well, alright, do just ignore that like, but. The other thing that shows up for me, Hillary, when you were talking and sharing your story, was the fact that like you had something so incredibly personal.
You had a pup who was reactive and you wanted to do better, and you wanted to learn with that pup. And so you just started researching these things. You went to the, the events and you just, you started to kind of learn how to do this and build a community, and it sounds like it was all very. Organic and it really was at the root of your dog that you loved.
And it sounds like it wasn't necessarily gonna like supposed to be that as the business. Like maybe that had never crossed your mind at first, but then it became it because it was so personal and you saw how amazing like it was turning out and how much you could help others. And I. I love that because it just started with curiosity and wanting to help the dog that you love.
Like can you talk more about that experience and like really leaning into that curiosity thing and just exploring what that looked like at first and not really having any intention of it being a business, but then that moment that you knew, oh yeah, this could be a business. Like what was that like?
Because a lot of us take classes, we'll explore things, we'll learn things. And we think, oh, maybe this will be it. But it's like, what if we just go into it with an open mind of like, can I, will I enjoy this? What am I gonna get out of this? Sometimes it takes off the pressure. So I'm just curious if you could talk a little bit more about what all that was like for you as you were kind of exploring it and then how it evolved.
Yeah. So, um. Great question. Like I said, like I have, you know, I had a reactive or I have a reactive dog, and, um, it just kind of got to the point where it was overwhelming. Um, and I didn't know how to help her. Right. Like, that's not something she wants to live in either. Right. Like, it's just, I mean, it's ultimately stress.
Yeah. Um, and doesn't feel good to her. So I was like, there has to be like something besides just, you know, obedience. Um, 'cause that's, and food, you know, management and stuff like that, like that's not connecting us. Yeah. It has relationship. So, so like I said, I went to that one workshop and then did another that.
And so I think with the, when I went into the, the dog psychology course, the 12 week course, um, you know, we had to post videos. There was a lot of homework. There was group, um, uh, events and stuff like that. Yeah. And I probably like, I don't know, like we, like I had, I had to, you had to get interviewed to like, enter the course.
Okay. Um, and so, you know, I had been interviewed and he was like, do you, you know, want to train dogs? I was like, no. Like, I just wanna help my dog, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So he was like, okay, cool. Like, it's just, I I was an owner coming in. Yeah. And, um, probably like, I don't know, like three weeks in, I was like. I was so excited about it.
Mm-hmm. And I had been going to the, um, you know, the, the bully breed bunch, their pack walks and everything like that. And I hadn't started leading anything, but I was just attending. Yeah. Um, there was only a few of us at that point that kind of started this. And um, so I was like talking to people. I was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing.
Like, I can, like help people in my group and, you know, all these things. And then, yeah. The guy who was running the course was like, well, why don't you just start teaching? Like, he is like, just lead pack walks, you know? And I was like, no, I couldn't do that. You know, he's like, no, like you have the tools, like you're being given these tools and you're gonna always, I think this is great too, 'cause it's like we always are gonna have somebody who knows less than us that can learn from us.
And that's what, you know, he gave me that great advice. 'cause he was like, like, you're further along than somebody else. You know? So you can like help support them. On their journey. Right, right. Yeah. And so I was like, oh yeah, like there's still somebody who knows less than me being three weeks into a class, you know, that happens in the class.
Yeah. Yeah. So that's why I kind of started just volunteering and just being like, okay, cool. I'm gonna do some classes and like pack walks and just kind of get my feet wet. And I am not, I'm not like talking in front of people. I do not like group speaking. I do not like any of that. So that like really pushed me out of my comfort zone.
Um. So I had to, you know, do that in like, groups of like 20 people and I was like, oh my gosh. Um, and then just, you know, learning how to like, uh, reiterate the information to people and kind of think on the spot, like what their dog is dealing with, you know, um, and things like that. And then I met, um, one of the girls in my group on the class was in the online class, was, um, lived down the street from me.
Okay. And so we were able to meet through that. And then she was kind of in the same boat as I was as like, I want to train, but I'm still in my corporate job and everything. So we've become friends. Mm-hmm. Um, and actually we have a business together that we also started. So we're both trainers. Okay. So I have love and she is wisdom of the dog.
And then we started, um. Uh, in February we started, uh, wisdom of the Pack, which is a day, a structured day camp for reactive dogs. Um, because that's what we were like. We both have reactive dogs. That's what we would've wanted when we were like struggling, right? Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, so we created a very structured day camp.
Um. Four. And so we only take eight dogs at a time. And that's in San Diego? Yeah. Oh my gosh. That's incredible. Yeah. That's wow. Just being able to like put your minds together, your skills together, your abilities to like learn and figure it out together. And now creating something for, I mean, reactive dogs are.
So special. They need a lot. It's, that's not easy. Like, um, and so the fact that you create a space for them based off of, well, this is what we would've wanted and now you made it. Yeah. And so it's incredible. It's so fun. Yeah. So every day you are working with dogs and you are helping dogs and you are helping owners with their dogs.
Is that kind of how the day goes? Like, can you talk more about like, what is the day to day like now for you and how has that affected you, you know, mentally and emotionally? Like, what is that like for you based off of like where you were before? I'm way more tired. Hey, great way. But like way more fulfilling too.
Like, I'm willing to put the time in. Yeah. Um, I absolutely love it, like being able to like, work with dogs and like amazing humans who like wanna support their dogs. Yeah. Um, and being, you know, a business partner who's amazing as well. Um, so we, I started, um, uh, I quit my job at the end of January. So very recently.
Mm-hmm. Um, so I started, uh, we started. The day camp in February. Okay. So basically like what that looks like is it's, um, a monthly commitment, um, because we want the dogs to like grow together mm-hmm. And like get to know each other, especially when dealing with reactivity. Yeah. Um, it's not like the super exciting day camp things that everyone like sees.
It's very. Because, you know, some dogs are human reactive, some are dog reactive. Mm-hmm. So we're dealing with, like, working on neutrality is basically like the goal of being calm around other dogs. So dogs don't equal excitement. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So yeah, so it's a month commitment and then it is, um, we offer it three days a week.
So you can come one, two, or three days. Um, and. Basically the structure is we, um, have crate time, so they're all crated. Um, and they just like learn to like co-exist together. And then, um, we kind of each week grow and kind of base it on what the dogs can handle and what they need. Yeah. Um, but basically like working on building confidence.
So we have treadmills. Um, we have like special stairs. We have different things that like to build confidence, like some agility stuff. Yeah. Um, we work on being, um, placed representing comm. So like we have like the raised cots. Um, we do a lot of things where. They're all together and maybe there's three dogs on the treadmills, and then there's like two or three out on place and they have to stay there, and then we're walking another dog around them.
Um, and so just kind of building up, um, what the dogs can handle. Yeah. Um, but it's really amazing to see like, I mean, some of these dogs like, you know, couldn't even walk next to another dog and now they're like laying on. Bed and dogs are walking around and they're like, fine. You know? Yeah. Um, because we've created this really neutral space and we've built trust with them, where we're like, okay, when you're on your place board mm-hmm.
Like no one bothers you. Mm-hmm. Like there's expectation of you. So it's just creating trust. In those spaces and they know like, oh yeah, you've got it. Like if there's another dog having a reaction, they're like, okay, cool. You've got it. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, uh, stories of dog, dog flippers, like, I mean the, the transformations there.
The, and that's incredible. I feel like we have a lot to learn from those dogs and how they navigate, change and, and earn trust based off of who knows what. Traumatic experiences they've had throughout their lives that they cannot even talk about. So I feel like, um, that is, it's an incredible gift to have people like you and your partner to be giving those dogs a second chance at being out in the world.
And. I mean, that's a beautiful thing. That's a really beautiful thing. Hilary, a question pops in my mind. You know, when we think about transformations and I, you know, where you are now based off of where you were early in your career, you know, burnt out, feeling sick, not being heard by doctors, and feeling overworked and and stressed out by what you were doing, what is something that you would say?
Now to your past self that you have wisdom about of where you are in your career path? Like what's something that you learned that you'd wanna go back and tell your younger self? Um, I think a couple things. One is to not like overthink it, like. I guess, I mean, when you're in your twenties and stuff like that, it's like you're like, I mean, you have way more energy.
Yeah. Um, but just to kind of like with dogs, like live in the moment and enjoy like what you're doing and just, I guess not be scared to, um, to take chances. Mm-hmm. I think we get, like you mentioned, you know, earlier, like we get so. Caught in our jobs being like a safety net. And it's like, yes, of course we have to pay the bills.
Of course. Like we need to make money. Like there is certain stability in having, um, working for somebody else, right? And not everyone wants to work for themselves, nor should they. Um, um, but, but not being so afraid of like this, like I think money scarcity mindset and things like that, that like, if you're.
Whether you're choosing like a career path or a job like of making sure it's something that you, um, enjoy and, um, try to have, you know, some, like be passionate about it, you know? And I think that's like the big thing. It's like, I think I did a lot of. Or didn't do things because I was like, oh, but it's like I'm not gonna make enough money.
Or, um, you know, I'd want to, but then something would hold me back instead of just kind of going for it. And I feel like in other areas of my life I was very much like, just go for it. You know? Like probably I would travel by myself, like to different countries and I'd be like, okay, this is fun. Yeah. Money and jobs.
I was always very held back, I feel like, and I feel like I, it was kind of, I think with the generation of my parents, it was like you just like, you work hard and you stay in a job and like they promote you and like companies are loyal. And so I was always raised with that mindset of like, you work hard.
Yep. And he's gonna be loyal to you. And I'm like, they're not loyal. Yeah. Like it's complete opposite now. Like nobody gets promoted. Like you have to like leave to get promoted. Right? Yeah. It's really hard for me to like, like wrap my head around because I'm like, but yeah, like my grandpa went from like a mail room clerk to a president, you know?
Like, yeah, but that doesn't, very different. You know? It was just like, it was always like we were immigrants. Like you work hard, like all these things and then mm-hmm. That doesn't work. And so I was like always in that mindset of being very loyal to a company thinking like it would be returned. Yeah. It wasn't.
So that's a very long answer, but it was like more just like being, you know, willing to kind of take some, some risks, especially early on in your career, like when you don't have, you know, necessarily like a lot of responsibility or bills and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But also later on, I mean, what the heck?
Like, you know, if you, if your passion switches Yeah. Um, you know, I think. I think just kind of getting over that hump of being like, this is what security means, because it's like that job can go away. Like they can fire you, they can go out of business, they can do whatever they want. Right. So ultimately, like really, like we've been conditioned for the corporate world to be mm-hmm.
You know. Secure. But yeah, it's not, and yeah, there's like a lot more like scary and pressure being put, you know, when you're doing it yourself. Yeah. Um, but. I'd rather like work hard for myself. Yeah. Or put the others in, you know, like, yeah. Someone else. Right, right. Gosh, I, I mean that, that company loyalty myth that we were told, that we, you know, we learned and our parents didn't know any better.
That's what they were taught and that is what they experienced. And so. But it's so true and I feel that as well. Like in my twenties, I'm like, I really just thought, oh, the first job I get, I'm, I gotta stay. Like that's, this is what I'm doing now. Like, and luckily, I mean, it was a great company that I worked at and I ended up staying there for 10 years from college on, and it was just like.
Wow. But like if I would've been told a different message if like, oh, if you wanna try something else, like you can, but like I literally put hobbies and certain other things like on the back end. 'cause I was like, well, I'm supposed to be working and I'm supposed to be working so hard. I didn't report a lot of overtime.
There were a lot of things I didn't do. 'cause I thought, oh, I'm just supposed to do this and be a good, good employee. And then, you know, at the end of the day, it's just business. You get laid off anyways. Like you said, you get fired anyways. The company goes outta business. Like whatever it is, it's just business.
And so, yeah, that is, that's a hard pill to swallow. I feel like learning that in the moment. It's like. It can be brutal, especially when your work is tied to your identity or your identity tied to your work, I should say. And, um, you put so much of your heart into it and then it's like, oh my God, it's just like a, a breakup.
It's, it's, it's absolutely heartbreaking. And, but once you know that truth, I feel like there's just a lot more available and yeah, it's, uh. It's a lot to take in, but that wisdom that you shared is so important, and I think a lot of us listening can really resonate with that. And, and especially just like with dogs and the way that they live their life and like, just, just have fun.
Just play with the toys and just, you know, enjoy the things. Any other dog wisdom that you've learned along the way that you wanna share that we can take away? Um, have fun with your dog. I feel like sometimes like we get so caught up in like. My dog has these like issues and, and things like that that we forget to like, just enjoy being with them and like finding things that you're kind of both have, can have fun doing together.
Um, you know, sometimes we get so caught up in like the training and, and all the things and it's easy to be like on this like routine and regimented and it's like sometimes just go have fun with your dog, right? Like, yeah, go enjoy each other like you like. Or family and you like live with this little being like, let's do something fun together.
Find out what they're passionate about. I think that was like, yeah, I adopted, um, my other dog, um, the, the week after my surgery. Oh my, let's do it. I'm off work. Like I'm in this course, like she's gonna be great. Oh, wow. Yeah. And so I was like. What does he like to do? Because like, I know what Lola likes to do, but I was like, what does he like to do now?
Like, so it was fun to kind of tr do like trial and error through like a bunch of things. I was like, does he like agility? Does he like paddleboarding? Does he like, enjoy Yeah. Um, besides, you know, just little being. And so, yeah. So it was fun to like kind of explore and, and. Watch him kind of grow into himself and figure out like, oh, what does, what does bing in enjoy?
Yeah. Oh, I love that. Yeah. I think that's like a big thing when you get, especially I think, especially like I said, like when you're dealing with reactivity or you have a lot of like, you know, behaviors that you're like, oh, like this is really overwhelming. Like, remember, it's still a relationship, so, Hmm.
Having fun and building that is part of the process, right? So that your dog is like, oh, you're not all just like business. Right. And, and getting frustrated. 'cause it can be very, it's like very alienating and frustrating having a reactive dog. 'cause you're like, I can't take them anywhere. Like they can't do anything.
Like it's find that things that they can do, like Lola loves going to the park and like being on her long line and just kind of like. Being and just hanging out, you know? And it's like just being in nature with your dog is healing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Find out what they like and it's a relationship. I think that's a great reminder right there.
'cause it is so easy to get swept up in the, well, I want my dog to be good. I want it to have friends. I want it to like all the things, but it's like there's so much more to that. Maybe they don't like that either. Yeah. Every dog wants to have friends. Like, I don't need to everyone. Right? So it's like we have this expectation that our dog like has to do all these things or be this certain way and it's like, yeah.
I think that was a huge thing for me too, that I was like, well, I just want her to like. Be able to go and do anything and be a coffee shop dog. And I was like, she doesn't like it. She can do all that stuff, but like, she doesn't enjoy it, so why am I gonna like force her to do that? So I think like instead of having the expectations for your dogs of like, they sh they, I want them to be able to do all these things.
It's like, but what do they like, you know, due they going to the farmer's market or is it too overwhelming for them? Do they like, you know, like putting Yeah. Our wants aside and recognizing like what their needs are is a huge, is a huge thing. You know, because it's like those can look very different. Yeah.
And kind of like really thinking through like, is this something that I want or something that they enjoy or that they actually need. Um, and kind of remembering that as well I think is a big, a big thing. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a really important reminder and just. And, and being present. Being present with your dog to really tune into those things.
And along those same lines, like being present with ourselves and the things that we wanna do as well, and living the life that we want to live. And so bringing that energy in to the relationship with the pup, it's just, I mean, it's a really, it's a really cool connection piece. And Hilary, you know, the work that you're doing with pups, I just.
It's amazing and I want people to be able to connect with you. This conversation today, I was just like, so great and I'm so grateful to have you here. So thank you. And where can people find you? How can they learn more about you? Yeah, so I'm at, um, on Instagram, it's um, my handle is Pack Love SD, San Diego.
Um, and then for our day camp, um, it's Wisdom of the Pack is that, and then same thing, pack Love San Diego. Um, or Pack. Yeah, pack love ca.com is my website. And then wisdom of the pack.com is our website for camp. Thank you so much. This has been such a great, a great conversation. I appreciate you being here.
Thank you, Hillary, you.
So Hilary we're connected through a fellow career flipper Kim, who was in season one. She, she was, uh, looking to be a museum curator and then decided to go into teaching and she flipped her career. She lives right down the street for me and I love having career flippers in such close proximity. And then she introduced me to you.
Welcome to the Career Flipper. I'm so excited to chat with you today, Hilary. Tell everybody. Who you are, where you are and what you're doing now. Sure. I am, my name's Hilary and um, I have a company called Pack Love. I'm based in San Diego and um, I. Do dog training, but it's a little bit more than that. Um, I'm not on the obedience end of dog training.
Um, I work on, um, relationship building between owners and dogs, um, educating humans. Um, and it's all based in dog psychology, which is getting more to the root of behaviors. Um. Really understanding where, um, how to communicate with your dog, what their needs are. Um, just because we're two different species, um, in our, in our homes, um.
When they should be in the wild, right? Like, so it's like, you know, bringing them into our homes. They don't speak English. Um, so just learning how to coexist together, um, and learn how to speak their language. I love that. And as a dog lover myself and my pup asleep right behind me here as I'm recording.
Um, this is just such a, a fun and interesting topic and I. Think like dog psychology is not something that you hear often. Like I, I honestly think those two words I haven't necessarily heard put together, um, in mainstream. And so how the heck did you even end up falling into a path where you're working with dogs and building connections between them and their owners and like speaking dog language?
Like how did Hillary, like how did this happen? Well, um, over a very long period of time, um, I have a reactive dog and so I, um, was like searching for trainers and like on Instagram and was like, oh my gosh, like, I don't know what to do, right? Like, she's reactive to humans, to the dogs. And so I just kind of like got into this world of like searching and like finding what trainers really resonated with me.
Um. So many didn't. Um, and then I went a few years ago to my first workshop, um, in LA and I was like, oh, this is really cool. Um, it was a three day workshop I brought her, um, and I kind of just like left it at that and I was like, okay, like back to life, right? And then, um, last year I had surgery. And was, um, out of work.
I was, um, on leave for like nine weeks and I was still struggling with reactivity, but I was always kind of back there in the mind. I'm like, okay, like I really resonate with this, you know, the dog psychology type of things. Like how do I, I was like, how do I build that relationship with my dog? Like, what does that mean?
Um, and so came across, um. A 12 week dog psychology program, um, that was online and signed up for that. And then I was like, this is, this is it. Like this changed my relationship with my dog, um, our life together. Um, um, and I was like, I need to share this with people. Like this isn't being talked about. You know, like it's such like a small world and.
It just was so, such a game changer. Um, and so previously. My whole career I had been in mostly in operations, um, in different industries. And then I was always trying to have my own business on the side. I was always hustling, trying to like find that thing that I was passionate about and I enjoyed a lot of things, but it was never like, oh, this is what I wanted to spend the rest of my life doing.
I honestly thought it was operations 'cause I'm just, I like project management stuff. I like. Organization. I like helping companies kind of, um, create really good processes and be efficient. And so I was like, that's what I'm gonna do. And um, I got officially diagnosed with endometriosis. Um. Probably eight years ago, and I was in a really stressful job and it just got so bad and that's when I had been dealing with it since I was 16, but I didn't know what it was.
Um, it just goes very undiagnosed for so long. So for 20 years, um, it was completely undiagnosed and I just was getting so sick and like the stress didn't help and I was like, I can't do this anymore. Um. I just like, I was depressed. I couldn't work out. I couldn't like work and so I had to like leave my career or what I thought was gonna be my career.
And I took a job as a paralegal, um, and. Thankfully, like it was a very low stress job. My boss was amazing. Um, and I was there for six years and had two surgeries during that time. They were, my schedule's really flexible, so it was like a great, yeah. Time and a great learning experience. And I was like, but this is not at all.
I don't wanna be in law. Like, I did have zero desire. Like it was just like a job is what I thought of it as. Yeah. Um, but it allowed me to heal. It allowed me to, you know. Heal my body and, and be in a low stress environment. Um, yeah. And so I just kind of was like, always like, what is that next thing that I'm gonna do?
Like, I couldn't get back into operations. I kept trying, but all the recruiters were like, no, you need to stay in law like you are a paralegal now. And I'm like, I don't want to be. Yeah, okay. I don't enjoy it. And I get like, really nice offers and I was just like, always turn them down. Um, 'cause I was just like, is it worth it?
Like, is it worth it to like do something that I'm not passionate about where I could just stay at my current job and be like, okay, like I have time to work on something that I'm passionate about. Yeah. Yeah. So I ended up having, um, surgery, doing the, um, the course and then kind of fell in with a group, um, called The Bully Breed Bunch.
And I went to their first group mm-hmm. Uh, meetup, and it was for all reactive dogs. And ever since then I've started leading, I started leading classes for them, um, pack walks, and that's kind of how I kind of built up this community. Um, so over the course of like a year and a half mm-hmm. Um, I stayed in my corporate job and then did this and hustled on the side to like build up a network and community because I was like, I, this is what I'm passionate about.
Right? Like, yeah. How can I like exit? Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh. I mean, there's so many things here that I, I'm hearing you say that are so incredibly important and that are so relevant to like the career flipper journeys. Like one, you know, having that feeling inside that like you want to do something meaningful, you want to do something that is.
More than, you know, whatever the regular job is. And the fact that you did that, you know, operations work for so long. Because also there's so many things about it that you like because it, it's very much, you know, the organization part and the structure and like I hear that 'cause I am very much like my brain thinks that way too.
I am operational, I want my structure, I want my project management. Like I want those, those things processes and procedures. But then, you know, when life kind of takes those turns and you, you know, with health is issues and especially, I mean, endometriosis, uh, there's so many doctors that you'll go to, I'm sure you could share on that sort of like, oh, it's just bad periods, or whatever it is.
Like, I mean, it's. It's ridiculous. And that's a whole other topic, but like when you have that already in play and like hearing how it was affecting your day to day life and you know, when you, when the job was not aligned and then suddenly you're health, you're just not feeling well and it's like you can't do anything.
The idea of doing meaningful work and having this kind of like freedom just sounds so. Beautiful. Um, and sometimes maybe, at least from what I've heard from others, sometimes like out of reach. And so you still continue though to like work towards it. And then the other thing, Hilary, is like having the job that allowed you to heal.
And I think that this is an important part and I actually would love to pick your brain a little bit. I have a couple questions, but like. When we're thinking about changing careers, a lot of the times we think about we just gotta jump in and leap in to do it. But there are financial things sometimes that come into play.
Like it's the reality. Like right now, I have a full-time job as well that I'm really considering like, like a, a bridge job as I work towards these other things. But it's a great job and it really gives me that financial stability. Is it what I wanna do forever? I mean, no, but like it's exactly where I need to be.
And to hear you talk about taking on that role that you did for six years, you healed. So it's like this personal, um, opportunity, but also professional opportunity to do what you need to do in a low stress environment with a great leader. It sounds like, and I'm curious, like when it came time to leave that and to put in that notice.
What was kind of going through your head at that time? Because to leave that, I mean, that's very, it sounds very stable to leave that stability, even though you knew it wasn't where you wanted to be leaving stability is so scary. Um, and so what was that like for you when you were kind of moving from that into the next thing?
Yeah, so I think for me it was, um, I mean all of the. I look back and it's like, like I said, I've always wanted to have my own company and I've tried multiple business businesses and so it's like, that was, it's always been like, that's my goal. I just didn't know how to do it or what I was gonna do. But I look back and I see like all the things that I've learned, all the things that I've been able to accomplish.
Yeah. Um. In my mind, I was like, oh, I'm such a loser. Like I'm keeping going on like all these different, you know, jobs and I don't have a career anymore. And, um, I felt really defeated. Um, and I might get a little emotional, but like, it's like I felt like really defeated, right? Like, because I just felt like so.
Like, I've let myself down and I was like seeing, you know, friends have these, these big careers and presidents of com, you know, and I was like, okay, I'm 40 years old, you know, 42 now, but like mm-hmm. I was going through all those emotions and stuff of being like, what am I doing wrong? You know, I've, I've been in all these different industries.
Yeah. It's been like the same mm-hmm. Roles, you know, to an extent like in operations, but it's like, have I really like. Moved up in the companies and stuff like that, like, um, yeah. And so I think for me though, looking back as like, when I was going to make these changes was like I looked back and I was like, this is what I'm, I'm meant to have my own company.
So like all these things that I've learned I can take and apply, right? They're all transferable skills and that kind of like. Was this aha moment for me that I was like, oh, this is really cool now, like, I'm confident in starting a business because I've. I've done operations, I've done marketing, I've done, um, you know, project management.
I've done bookkeeping. I've, you know, it's like I've done all these things over the years. Even like the, the law, like being at the law office was like an incredible opportunity. 'cause we set up businesses all the time. That's like, we did estate planning and bus corporate setups. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, oh yeah, I can, I, my own company, I can like start, you know, do my own taxes, like all these things.
And I can also like, you know. Have these things in my toolbox, right? Yes. Right. And so I think that gave me the confidence, like when I kind of switched my mindset of being like, that was me. Like I didn't like have a career. Yeah, yeah. And being like, well, that's not what I wanted ultimately. Right. Like, that's not, wasn't my goal, um, all these years.
So it's like mm-hmm. Even though it took a long time to get to what my passion was, um. I'm really thankful that it wasn't until, you know, just this year at 42 that I like, was able to be like, oh, okay, I can quit my job. And having that like, yeah, you know. Process and having a supportive partner too. Mm-hmm.
Like my husband is very supportive of, you know, what I wanted to do. Yeah. Um, I think he's, he's like another business. What's this gonna cost? And I was like, that's,
oh my gosh. No. That resonates so much. Like the, the skillset, the things that we learn, it's like. You are exactly where you are today because of all of those skips around that you did, all of the things you learned, all of the jobs that, you know, burned you out. Like all the things that you learned personally, professionally, through all of those got you to the place you are now.
And I think sometimes, um, at least I hear from other people who are thinking about making a change and they're just like, oh, but I don't, I don't know how to start this new business. And it's like. Let's look at what you do know. Like you did this, this, this in the past, like, oh yeah, I guess so. Like, I mean, furniture restoration.
I knew nothing about that, but I knew a lot about customer experience. I knew a lot about tech and startups, so I could use all of those skills and get real scrappy to create something from nothing, and that was really how I leaned into that too. So I'm glad you brought that up because. I feel like that is something that's really overlooked.
And especially kind of going back to what you were mentioning with the recruiters, um, you know, saying to stay in legal, like you clearly could have done, you know, any of these other things because you had the skillset, but it was just in the way that sometimes it's perceived out there, especially by some types of recruiters, that it just is like, no, you stay in your lane and that's.
I mean, one of the biggest reasons why I wanted to start this podcast, because we don't have to stay in our lane. We can do other things and it's totally possible. And if someone says you can't, well, alright, do just ignore that like, but. The other thing that shows up for me, Hillary, when you were talking and sharing your story, was the fact that like you had something so incredibly personal.
You had a pup who was reactive and you wanted to do better, and you wanted to learn with that pup. And so you just started researching these things. You went to the, the events and you just, you started to kind of learn how to do this and build a community, and it sounds like it was all very. Organic and it really was at the root of your dog that you loved.
And it sounds like it wasn't necessarily gonna like supposed to be that as the business. Like maybe that had never crossed your mind at first, but then it became it because it was so personal and you saw how amazing like it was turning out and how much you could help others. And I. I love that because it just started with curiosity and wanting to help the dog that you love.
Like can you talk more about that experience and like really leaning into that curiosity thing and just exploring what that looked like at first and not really having any intention of it being a business, but then that moment that you knew, oh yeah, this could be a business. Like what was that like?
Because a lot of us take classes, we'll explore things, we'll learn things. And we think, oh, maybe this will be it. But it's like, what if we just go into it with an open mind of like, can I, will I enjoy this? What am I gonna get out of this? Sometimes it takes off the pressure. So I'm just curious if you could talk a little bit more about what all that was like for you as you were kind of exploring it and then how it evolved.
Yeah. So, um. Great question. Like I said, like I have, you know, I had a reactive or I have a reactive dog, and, um, it just kind of got to the point where it was overwhelming. Um, and I didn't know how to help her. Right. Like, that's not something she wants to live in either. Right. Like, it's just, I mean, it's ultimately stress.
Yeah. Um, and doesn't feel good to her. So I was like, there has to be like something besides just, you know, obedience. Um, 'cause that's, and food, you know, management and stuff like that, like that's not connecting us. Yeah. It has relationship. So, so like I said, I went to that one workshop and then did another that.
And so I think with the, when I went into the, the dog psychology course, the 12 week course, um, you know, we had to post videos. There was a lot of homework. There was group, um, uh, events and stuff like that. Yeah. And I probably like, I don't know, like we, like I had, I had to, you had to get interviewed to like, enter the course.
Okay. Um, and so, you know, I had been interviewed and he was like, do you, you know, want to train dogs? I was like, no. Like, I just wanna help my dog, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So he was like, okay, cool. Like, it's just, I I was an owner coming in. Yeah. And, um, probably like, I don't know, like three weeks in, I was like. I was so excited about it.
Mm-hmm. And I had been going to the, um, you know, the, the bully breed bunch, their pack walks and everything like that. And I hadn't started leading anything, but I was just attending. Yeah. Um, there was only a few of us at that point that kind of started this. And um, so I was like talking to people. I was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing.
Like, I can, like help people in my group and, you know, all these things. And then, yeah. The guy who was running the course was like, well, why don't you just start teaching? Like, he is like, just lead pack walks, you know? And I was like, no, I couldn't do that. You know, he's like, no, like you have the tools, like you're being given these tools and you're gonna always, I think this is great too, 'cause it's like we always are gonna have somebody who knows less than us that can learn from us.
And that's what, you know, he gave me that great advice. 'cause he was like, like, you're further along than somebody else. You know? So you can like help support them. On their journey. Right, right. Yeah. And so I was like, oh yeah, like there's still somebody who knows less than me being three weeks into a class, you know, that happens in the class.
Yeah. Yeah. So that's why I kind of started just volunteering and just being like, okay, cool. I'm gonna do some classes and like pack walks and just kind of get my feet wet. And I am not, I'm not like talking in front of people. I do not like group speaking. I do not like any of that. So that like really pushed me out of my comfort zone.
Um. So I had to, you know, do that in like, groups of like 20 people and I was like, oh my gosh. Um, and then just, you know, learning how to like, uh, reiterate the information to people and kind of think on the spot, like what their dog is dealing with, you know, um, and things like that. And then I met, um, one of the girls in my group on the class was in the online class, was, um, lived down the street from me.
Okay. And so we were able to meet through that. And then she was kind of in the same boat as I was as like, I want to train, but I'm still in my corporate job and everything. So we've become friends. Mm-hmm. Um, and actually we have a business together that we also started. So we're both trainers. Okay. So I have love and she is wisdom of the dog.
And then we started, um. Uh, in February we started, uh, wisdom of the Pack, which is a day, a structured day camp for reactive dogs. Um, because that's what we were like. We both have reactive dogs. That's what we would've wanted when we were like struggling, right? Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, so we created a very structured day camp.
Um. Four. And so we only take eight dogs at a time. And that's in San Diego? Yeah. Oh my gosh. That's incredible. Yeah. That's wow. Just being able to like put your minds together, your skills together, your abilities to like learn and figure it out together. And now creating something for, I mean, reactive dogs are.
So special. They need a lot. It's, that's not easy. Like, um, and so the fact that you create a space for them based off of, well, this is what we would've wanted and now you made it. Yeah. And so it's incredible. It's so fun. Yeah. So every day you are working with dogs and you are helping dogs and you are helping owners with their dogs.
Is that kind of how the day goes? Like, can you talk more about like, what is the day to day like now for you and how has that affected you, you know, mentally and emotionally? Like, what is that like for you based off of like where you were before? I'm way more tired. Hey, great way. But like way more fulfilling too.
Like, I'm willing to put the time in. Yeah. Um, I absolutely love it, like being able to like, work with dogs and like amazing humans who like wanna support their dogs. Yeah. Um, and being, you know, a business partner who's amazing as well. Um, so we, I started, um, uh, I quit my job at the end of January. So very recently.
Mm-hmm. Um, so I started, uh, we started. The day camp in February. Okay. So basically like what that looks like is it's, um, a monthly commitment, um, because we want the dogs to like grow together mm-hmm. And like get to know each other, especially when dealing with reactivity. Yeah. Um, it's not like the super exciting day camp things that everyone like sees.
It's very. Because, you know, some dogs are human reactive, some are dog reactive. Mm-hmm. So we're dealing with, like, working on neutrality is basically like the goal of being calm around other dogs. So dogs don't equal excitement. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So yeah, so it's a month commitment and then it is, um, we offer it three days a week.
So you can come one, two, or three days. Um, and. Basically the structure is we, um, have crate time, so they're all crated. Um, and they just like learn to like co-exist together. And then, um, we kind of each week grow and kind of base it on what the dogs can handle and what they need. Yeah. Um, but basically like working on building confidence.
So we have treadmills. Um, we have like special stairs. We have different things that like to build confidence, like some agility stuff. Yeah. Um, we work on being, um, placed representing comm. So like we have like the raised cots. Um, we do a lot of things where. They're all together and maybe there's three dogs on the treadmills, and then there's like two or three out on place and they have to stay there, and then we're walking another dog around them.
Um, and so just kind of building up, um, what the dogs can handle. Yeah. Um, but it's really amazing to see like, I mean, some of these dogs like, you know, couldn't even walk next to another dog and now they're like laying on. Bed and dogs are walking around and they're like, fine. You know? Yeah. Um, because we've created this really neutral space and we've built trust with them, where we're like, okay, when you're on your place board mm-hmm.
Like no one bothers you. Mm-hmm. Like there's expectation of you. So it's just creating trust. In those spaces and they know like, oh yeah, you've got it. Like if there's another dog having a reaction, they're like, okay, cool. You've got it. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, uh, stories of dog, dog flippers, like, I mean the, the transformations there.
The, and that's incredible. I feel like we have a lot to learn from those dogs and how they navigate, change and, and earn trust based off of who knows what. Traumatic experiences they've had throughout their lives that they cannot even talk about. So I feel like, um, that is, it's an incredible gift to have people like you and your partner to be giving those dogs a second chance at being out in the world.
And. I mean, that's a beautiful thing. That's a really beautiful thing. Hilary, a question pops in my mind. You know, when we think about transformations and I, you know, where you are now based off of where you were early in your career, you know, burnt out, feeling sick, not being heard by doctors, and feeling overworked and and stressed out by what you were doing, what is something that you would say?
Now to your past self that you have wisdom about of where you are in your career path? Like what's something that you learned that you'd wanna go back and tell your younger self? Um, I think a couple things. One is to not like overthink it, like. I guess, I mean, when you're in your twenties and stuff like that, it's like you're like, I mean, you have way more energy.
Yeah. Um, but just to kind of like with dogs, like live in the moment and enjoy like what you're doing and just, I guess not be scared to, um, to take chances. Mm-hmm. I think we get, like you mentioned, you know, earlier, like we get so. Caught in our jobs being like a safety net. And it's like, yes, of course we have to pay the bills.
Of course. Like we need to make money. Like there is certain stability in having, um, working for somebody else, right? And not everyone wants to work for themselves, nor should they. Um, um, but, but not being so afraid of like this, like I think money scarcity mindset and things like that, that like, if you're.
Whether you're choosing like a career path or a job like of making sure it's something that you, um, enjoy and, um, try to have, you know, some, like be passionate about it, you know? And I think that's like the big thing. It's like, I think I did a lot of. Or didn't do things because I was like, oh, but it's like I'm not gonna make enough money.
Or, um, you know, I'd want to, but then something would hold me back instead of just kind of going for it. And I feel like in other areas of my life I was very much like, just go for it. You know? Like probably I would travel by myself, like to different countries and I'd be like, okay, this is fun. Yeah. Money and jobs.
I was always very held back, I feel like, and I feel like I, it was kind of, I think with the generation of my parents, it was like you just like, you work hard and you stay in a job and like they promote you and like companies are loyal. And so I was always raised with that mindset of like, you work hard.
Yep. And he's gonna be loyal to you. And I'm like, they're not loyal. Yeah. Like it's complete opposite now. Like nobody gets promoted. Like you have to like leave to get promoted. Right? Yeah. It's really hard for me to like, like wrap my head around because I'm like, but yeah, like my grandpa went from like a mail room clerk to a president, you know?
Like, yeah, but that doesn't, very different. You know? It was just like, it was always like we were immigrants. Like you work hard, like all these things and then mm-hmm. That doesn't work. And so I was like always in that mindset of being very loyal to a company thinking like it would be returned. Yeah. It wasn't.
So that's a very long answer, but it was like more just like being, you know, willing to kind of take some, some risks, especially early on in your career, like when you don't have, you know, necessarily like a lot of responsibility or bills and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But also later on, I mean, what the heck?
Like, you know, if you, if your passion switches Yeah. Um, you know, I think. I think just kind of getting over that hump of being like, this is what security means, because it's like that job can go away. Like they can fire you, they can go out of business, they can do whatever they want. Right. So ultimately, like really, like we've been conditioned for the corporate world to be mm-hmm.
You know. Secure. But yeah, it's not, and yeah, there's like a lot more like scary and pressure being put, you know, when you're doing it yourself. Yeah. Um, but. I'd rather like work hard for myself. Yeah. Or put the others in, you know, like, yeah. Someone else. Right, right. Gosh, I, I mean that, that company loyalty myth that we were told, that we, you know, we learned and our parents didn't know any better.
That's what they were taught and that is what they experienced. And so. But it's so true and I feel that as well. Like in my twenties, I'm like, I really just thought, oh, the first job I get, I'm, I gotta stay. Like that's, this is what I'm doing now. Like, and luckily, I mean, it was a great company that I worked at and I ended up staying there for 10 years from college on, and it was just like.
Wow. But like if I would've been told a different message if like, oh, if you wanna try something else, like you can, but like I literally put hobbies and certain other things like on the back end. 'cause I was like, well, I'm supposed to be working and I'm supposed to be working so hard. I didn't report a lot of overtime.
There were a lot of things I didn't do. 'cause I thought, oh, I'm just supposed to do this and be a good, good employee. And then, you know, at the end of the day, it's just business. You get laid off anyways. Like you said, you get fired anyways. The company goes outta business. Like whatever it is, it's just business.
And so, yeah, that is, that's a hard pill to swallow. I feel like learning that in the moment. It's like. It can be brutal, especially when your work is tied to your identity or your identity tied to your work, I should say. And, um, you put so much of your heart into it and then it's like, oh my God, it's just like a, a breakup.
It's, it's, it's absolutely heartbreaking. And, but once you know that truth, I feel like there's just a lot more available and yeah, it's, uh. It's a lot to take in, but that wisdom that you shared is so important, and I think a lot of us listening can really resonate with that. And, and especially just like with dogs and the way that they live their life and like, just, just have fun.
Just play with the toys and just, you know, enjoy the things. Any other dog wisdom that you've learned along the way that you wanna share that we can take away? Um, have fun with your dog. I feel like sometimes like we get so caught up in like. My dog has these like issues and, and things like that that we forget to like, just enjoy being with them and like finding things that you're kind of both have, can have fun doing together.
Um, you know, sometimes we get so caught up in like the training and, and all the things and it's easy to be like on this like routine and regimented and it's like sometimes just go have fun with your dog, right? Like, yeah, go enjoy each other like you like. Or family and you like live with this little being like, let's do something fun together.
Find out what they're passionate about. I think that was like, yeah, I adopted, um, my other dog, um, the, the week after my surgery. Oh my, let's do it. I'm off work. Like I'm in this course, like she's gonna be great. Oh, wow. Yeah. And so I was like. What does he like to do? Because like, I know what Lola likes to do, but I was like, what does he like to do now?
Like, so it was fun to kind of tr do like trial and error through like a bunch of things. I was like, does he like agility? Does he like paddleboarding? Does he like, enjoy Yeah. Um, besides, you know, just little being. And so, yeah. So it was fun to like kind of explore and, and. Watch him kind of grow into himself and figure out like, oh, what does, what does bing in enjoy?
Yeah. Oh, I love that. Yeah. I think that's like a big thing when you get, especially I think, especially like I said, like when you're dealing with reactivity or you have a lot of like, you know, behaviors that you're like, oh, like this is really overwhelming. Like, remember, it's still a relationship, so, Hmm.
Having fun and building that is part of the process, right? So that your dog is like, oh, you're not all just like business. Right. And, and getting frustrated. 'cause it can be very, it's like very alienating and frustrating having a reactive dog. 'cause you're like, I can't take them anywhere. Like they can't do anything.
Like it's find that things that they can do, like Lola loves going to the park and like being on her long line and just kind of like. Being and just hanging out, you know? And it's like just being in nature with your dog is healing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Find out what they like and it's a relationship. I think that's a great reminder right there.
'cause it is so easy to get swept up in the, well, I want my dog to be good. I want it to have friends. I want it to like all the things, but it's like there's so much more to that. Maybe they don't like that either. Yeah. Every dog wants to have friends. Like, I don't need to everyone. Right? So it's like we have this expectation that our dog like has to do all these things or be this certain way and it's like, yeah.
I think that was a huge thing for me too, that I was like, well, I just want her to like. Be able to go and do anything and be a coffee shop dog. And I was like, she doesn't like it. She can do all that stuff, but like, she doesn't enjoy it, so why am I gonna like force her to do that? So I think like instead of having the expectations for your dogs of like, they sh they, I want them to be able to do all these things.
It's like, but what do they like, you know, due they going to the farmer's market or is it too overwhelming for them? Do they like, you know, like putting Yeah. Our wants aside and recognizing like what their needs are is a huge, is a huge thing. You know, because it's like those can look very different. Yeah.
And kind of like really thinking through like, is this something that I want or something that they enjoy or that they actually need. Um, and kind of remembering that as well I think is a big, a big thing. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a really important reminder and just. And, and being present. Being present with your dog to really tune into those things.
And along those same lines, like being present with ourselves and the things that we wanna do as well, and living the life that we want to live. And so bringing that energy in to the relationship with the pup, it's just, I mean, it's a really, it's a really cool connection piece. And Hilary, you know, the work that you're doing with pups, I just.
It's amazing and I want people to be able to connect with you. This conversation today, I was just like, so great and I'm so grateful to have you here. So thank you. And where can people find you? How can they learn more about you? Yeah, so I'm at, um, on Instagram, it's um, my handle is Pack Love SD, San Diego.
Um, and then for our day camp, um, it's Wisdom of the Pack is that, and then same thing, pack Love San Diego. Um, or Pack. Yeah, pack love ca.com is my website. And then wisdom of the pack.com is our website for camp. Thank you so much. This has been such a great, a great conversation. I appreciate you being here.
Thank you, Hillary, you.